Forged Alliance Forever

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T19:16:16+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
Maybe if you used this critical thinking stuff more yourself there would be a better discussion

WTH, were is this coming from?

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 29 Nov 2017, 19:16

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T18:06:19+02:00

tatsu wrote:
maybe have a tiny bit of outward critical thinking before jumping straight to name-calling.

Maybe if you used this critical thinking stuff more yourself there would be a better discussion

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 29 Nov 2017, 18:06

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T18:12:19+02:00

oh yes

the linux reviews linux tutorials pro linux anti windows channel with no visible certification said that windows was bad, what would someone who profits (from adrev) possibly have to gain from leading people to his choice of OS and thus into the demographic of people who watch his videos? hmm..........

tatsu when are you going to gain a sense of self awareness

edit:

IceDreamer wrote:
and various sensationalist news stories over the past few years.

you should probably cross-check your posts to their replies kappa

Statistics: Posted by biass — 29 Nov 2017, 18:03

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T17:55:44+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
It is 95% bullshit, driven by ignorance, paranoia, and various sensationalist news stories over the past few years.

look I really REALLY get that I might not be THE expert nor the best at expressing myself but why with this particular topic do things rush to a personal level at the speed of light??

Is this an experiment you've run yourself?
object

maybe have a tiny bit of outward critical thinking before jumping straight to name-calling.

I've removed my own post because I've derailed this thread enough but I'll leave this one for those who are curious. I really think we should open a thread dedicated to this.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 29 Nov 2017, 17:55

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T16:00:01+02:00

tatsu wrote:
Snip

Good as Linux is, you should all ignore this post. It is 95% bullshit, driven by ignorance, paranoia, and various sensationalist news stories over the past few years.

Win10 is not a keylogger. Think it through, if they had a freaking keylogger 100% of the time, Win10 would have been annihilated by privacy law in about 3 seconds. There is no viable evidence of it sending keystrokes, or ANY private data for that matter, at all.

The under-the-hood bandwidth use of default Win10 is tiny. Logging all traffic on my router, I get <1kb/s default traffic. Turning off the various telemetry settings made obvious in the UI drops that to basically nil. The data that IS sent is encrypted, anonymous, and there for technical breakdown for MS's engineers. It is things like CPU stability, file system integrity, feedback from the Defender system etc.

Win10 update downloads are easily disabled. It does not override your wishes and do it anyway

On topic, I'm afraid not much can be done. CPU rating is pointless as it is now because it can be easily faked, an is a poor representation anyway. Ping is available, but only rarely relevant ingame. Packet loss can't be predicted. Choke can't be predicted.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 29 Nov 2017, 16:00

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T14:34:45+02:00

LittleKiller:
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 14:10
Last visited: 13 Nov 2017, 14:44

i guess he is not reading it ^^

Statistics: Posted by Uveso — 29 Nov 2017, 14:34

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T17:45:24+02:00

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 29 Nov 2017, 11:43

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T00:29:36+02:00

tatsu wrote:
well at a certain point down the line I think coding a better connectivity and cpu meter is possible except who will put in the time?

maybe I could get off my ass but I don't feel motivated right now.

Months ago I modified the lobby a bit for my own purposes, it refreshes ping several times per second allowing to see ping spikes, shows who is not connected to whom, shows high pings between players for everyone (but everyone needs this mod for this one part to work). Everything is also color coded to judge at first glance if lobby is worth sticking around. Place the file here: \Steam\steamapps\common\Supreme Commander Forged Alliance\gamedata it is incompatible with most lobby enhancements mods
http://176.97.27.28:8000/downloads/sc_music.scd
I also think the current cpu benchmark is sufficient, can't detect if it's a laptop that might throttle but well ...
You're welcome to code new things if you have any ideas, just keep in mind it's unlikely anyone will introduce this into general population because they think everyone is stupid so don't bother coding things that require everyone to have this mod.

Statistics: Posted by BenDover — 29 Nov 2017, 00:29

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-28T22:24:20+02:00

tatsu wrote:
never has "why should I play FAF on linux" been better characterized .....because you don't get insane bandwidth consumption by your system and background apps un-asked.

LAN parties will teach you this. completely idle, 8 windows PCs with just one router turn your 70MB/s connection into a 70KB/s.

it's pretty redonc'

but if they're linuxes you can expect most of that 70MB/s if not all on each individual pc while idle.

Sorry to revive this but this is just utter bullshit. Connection bandwith is usually not even the bottleneck. If i had to guess the reasons:
- Just bad routing between players. Since p2p traffic is almost insignificant, providers don't care about routing it in a good way.
- Overprovisioning by providers. Will become even worse now that net neutrality is completely gone in the US.
- Internet sold by TV cable providers in my country are known for being generally unstable, breaking down sometimes or showing massive packet loss from time to time. But cable is the only affordable option for most if they want to watch full HD video streams. Sometimes this is just happening for some seconds, but SupCom usually cannot deal with it. As far as i know, ICE could help here right?
- With ipv6 in the mix, NATs on provider's side to resolve ipv4 to ipv6, and whatnot, the whole networking stuff has become even more complicated. Doesn't help with fixing issues.
- I suspect some players are using mobile connections (LTE?). Not the most stable either.
- The occasional SupCom game or computer crash.

The stuff about Windows is so wrong it hurts, but to each his own (prejudices). Try installing a bunch of dubious Anti-Virus-Products, Tuning-Tools, weird "performance improving scripts" from the internet, about 200 various adware-programs on your nice Linux System, and then you have a fair basis for comparing an OS as used by "the common gamer". A clean not-screwed-with windows runs fine these days. "Tried and tested" in various LAN-parties lol.

Statistics: Posted by Katharsas — 28 Nov 2017, 22:24

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-29T17:44:56+02:00

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 13 Nov 2017, 19:32

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-13T19:26:52+02:00

well at a certain point down the line I think coding a better connectivity and cpu meter is possible except who will put in the time?

maybe I could get off my ass but I don't feel motivated right now.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 13 Nov 2017, 19:26

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-13T19:25:22+02:00

I have to agree with Brutus that keeping games running smooth above 4v4, maybe 5v5 is a bit a pipe dream.

It sucks because everyone wants to play together but... You just... Can't

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 13 Nov 2017, 19:25

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-13T19:19:46+02:00

I think most of these issues are caused by the player increase in the lobby, and I personally would prefer to restrict game to max. 4vs4.

"Back in the days" 4vs4 was maximum and even then you had a regular game that broke because of connection or pc issues.
Let's say a connection from player A to player B has a defined chance to fail during the game.
FA is a peer to peer game. In a 4vs4 you have 8x7 connections. In a 6vs6 you have 12x11 connections. So the chance to break the game due to connection issues increases by 2,35x higher even though you just have 50% more players.

Simulation is even worse. The required CPU power over time does not scale linear, but more like exponantially-ish (1 engineer builds a factory, that builds two engineers, that build two factories, would be 2^x). Now make the 50% additional players line up exponentially...

Statistically speaking: if you want to avoid these problems, don't play 6vs6.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 13 Nov 2017, 19:19

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-13T14:47:13+02:00

Ofc there is much issue on game speed it can be just sim lag (cpu) like you experience or p2p/ping lag.
None of the solutions you propose will fix that, and they require coding, unfortunatly there is no one to code them...
We all had many great idea at some point, but except if you can code it yourself, you can forget about it.

The only solution i can see about that, is to make a new rule that if your cpu get under a certain simspeed like -3 you can ask a moderator with a screenshot to close the lagger game.

But again moderator are missing ppl and add more work to them isn't a good idea atm...

Statistics: Posted by jackherer — 13 Nov 2017, 14:47

Re: We need to change the lobby

2017-11-13T14:47:55+02:00

traffic for this game is fairly limited
people tend to start lagging in game because their connection becomes way worse (3g or 4g are not very reliable), something in their local network starts using the internet (mobile phone that starts updating, OS updating, steam etc) or other stuff that you cannot predict in a lobby
you can currently see people who have a ping that is >500 ms in a lobby (which is the point at which the game will start lagging)

if you have someone in your game that loses a con to someone else then send a pm to a moderator and include a screenshot showing the networkstats as evidence and the moderator will eject that player for you

the stuff you mentioned is being worked on by kyrO atm (min/max nr of games/rating/cpu etc etc)
the result will hopefully look something like this
disclaimer: that version of the modded lobby doesn't work with the current faf game patch - if you use it you will desync in game

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 13 Nov 2017, 14:43