Forged Alliance Forever

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-25T23:59:15+02:00

Professor wrote:
Scout your enemies and don't sit in your base all day.

Thanks for the Beginners tip, Professor.

Statistics: Posted by SilentWarrior — 25 Jul 2017, 23:59

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T21:08:08+02:00

Gorton wrote:
So to whoever asked: what meaning do you mean of meta ^^

The question was from this statement;

FtXCommando" The quality of the games rise when meta is well known by all players (in theory).[/quote]

I asked;

[quote="MisterK wrote:
What do you mean by 'Meta'?
I'm a noob, on the subject.

Thanks,

K

From all the replies, that were made, I gather that 'Meta' - basically means, study the 'Lay of the Land'.

As commented up by;

FtXCommando wrote:
Meta = The general gameplan.

Basically all maps have several optimal pathways to use. These optimal paths lead to specialized build orders for the maps. Some maps have extra tree reclaim near the start location so you can get away with less power generators than a generalized build order. Some have mass in the center that you have to get immediately. Some have mass in the center that can be gained at a later point in time due to the amount of reclaim in other areas/it not being worth the opportunity cost.

If one player knows the "meta" of a map while another player does not, it's going to be a totally one-sided game. When there is a large map pool, the players that have played for a long time will have a significant advantage because there aren't that many good new maps that are created and so it is more likely than not that they will play a map that they are familiar with while new players will not. With a small pool, it is much easier for everyone to reach a higher level of understanding with maps as there are only 6 maps or so for new players to learn.

I like this answer most, it explains it best. There's a whole onion skin of meanings underneath, but this thread is meant for new players who have got stuck getting whooped on a regular. They tend to adopt the 'Turtle' effect and 'Invite' their opposite number to keep attacking them, while they lose mexes and get even weaker along the way.

Viba wrote:
Or just don't be the player who has to counter things, be the player causing your opponent to counter your shenanigans

This whole learning curve, reminds of how people learn to draw. Either, they open their eyes and actually see what's in front of them, or they are doomed to forever, close their eyes and draw from some protective memory that made them feel good for short time and say to themselves,' That'll do'.

So, to answer your question. I didn't know what 'meta' meant, or heard it before, but seeing that it's an important part of developing into a half decent player, it might be worthwhile learning what it means.

The response by the faf community is absolutely fantastic! I can't thank you guys (and gals) enough. You never know, I might start a ladder match, sometime soon.

Statistics: Posted by SilentWarrior — 09 Jul 2017, 21:08

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T15:14:05+02:00

Meta refers to the metagame which is a game within a game. Within the metagame, or just meta, there a lot more rules which are constructed by the players. For example, a basic meta rule on almost any map is you open by building a land factory.

The meta rules can get a lot more specific and deal with timings and unit composition and more or less any part of the game. Usually people refer to the vanilla gameplay of a map as the meta because it follows the standard meta rules agreed on by the playerbase, or at least the meta rules of roughly that rating.

It's a lot easier to play the meta because you can predict what will happen more easily and you are limiting the available gameplay to a somewhat narrow area which you can focus on more closely. The meta also gives you something to play around and against without having to just scout and react constantly.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 09 Jul 2017, 15:14

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T13:06:55+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
Meta = The general gameplan.

Basically all maps have several optimal pathways to use. These optimal paths lead to specialized build orders for the maps. Some maps have extra tree reclaim near the start location so you can get away with less power generators than a generalized build order. Some have mass in the center that you have to get immediately. Some have mass in the center that can be gained at a later point in time due to the amount of reclaim in other areas/it not being worth the opportunity cost.

If one player knows the "meta" of a map while another player does not, it's going to be a totally one-sided game. When there is a large map pool, the players that have played for a long time will have a significant advantage because there aren't that many good new maps that are created and so it is more likely than not that they will play a map that they are familiar with while new players will not. With a small pool, it is much easier for everyone to reach a higher level of understanding with maps as there are only 6 maps or so for new players to learn.

To dispute, original meaning of meta is the general gameplan, it's not about the specific map's things.

You could argue that the map's inherent values (for example lots of e reclaim at start) influence the meta, but the meta is generally just "what's most effective to do".

When other games talk about it, it's generally about what's op or just the best thing right then. So I guess we could say the meta is getting t3 land around 10 min on 10x10, but specific map things are not "meta" as such, at least in the traditional definition of the word.

So to whoever asked: what meaning do you mean of meta ^^

(I would just say map meta and game meta to try and differentiate I guess)

Second dispute on map pool size: I don't agree at all that a small map pool helps new or irregular players, if they come against someone who plays a lot they are going to be equally as shafted, with the possible exception that a large map pool is far more likely to not allow optimisation of every map for the average ladder player.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 09 Jul 2017, 13:06

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T12:30:36+02:00

LMAO... That's way too funny. I guess everyone just ran around in circles a shot at 90 different targets with not focus fire.

Statistics: Posted by Nepty — 09 Jul 2017, 12:30

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T10:08:36+02:00

I would love to see a massive LAB drop in someone's base in FAF. Like 3 transports full.

Then I saw an ultra mega gigantic drop of 5!! T2 transports full of labs, they killed couple of engies and 1 T1 pgen. It looked scary only until they started shooting.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 09 Jul 2017, 10:08

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T09:07:21+02:00

Yes, generally speaking playing bad will make you lose a game. It's a complicated issue.

Metas have plenty of room for innovation, you're just using fun as a euphemism.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 09 Jul 2017, 09:07

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T02:55:30+02:00

Those things have nothing to do with meta, just with game balance and stupid decisions.

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 09 Jul 2017, 02:55

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T02:18:56+02:00

Meta just means boring to me, and no innovative tactics.

It's why I don't watch star craft 2 tournaments anymore. Everyone just does the same sh*t, never build certain units. Gotta pray for a battlecruiser or a nuke the whole time, it just never happens...

I would love to see a massive LAB drop in someone's base in FAF. Like 3 transports full. (Infantry for the win). Meta prevents anything exciting and unique from happening. Basically status quo, no deviations. Try something new = Lose most of the time. Meta makes sure of it.

Statistics: Posted by Nepty — 09 Jul 2017, 02:18

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-09T00:03:30+02:00

I've heard "Meta" used to be an acronym that meant "most effective tactic available". Don't know if that's true, but it's general slang now.

Statistics: Posted by Ars Nova — 09 Jul 2017, 00:03

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-08T19:28:09+02:00

Meta = The general gameplan.

Basically all maps have several optimal pathways to use. These optimal paths lead to specialized build orders for the maps. Some maps have extra tree reclaim near the start location so you can get away with less power generators than a generalized build order. Some have mass in the center that you have to get immediately. Some have mass in the center that can be gained at a later point in time due to the amount of reclaim in other areas/it not being worth the opportunity cost.

If one player knows the "meta" of a map while another player does not, it's going to be a totally one-sided game. When there is a large map pool, the players that have played for a long time will have a significant advantage because there aren't that many good new maps that are created and so it is more likely than not that they will play a map that they are familiar with while new players will not. With a small pool, it is much easier for everyone to reach a higher level of understanding with maps as there are only 6 maps or so for new players to learn.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 08 Jul 2017, 19:28

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-08T19:14:10+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
The quality of the games rise when meta is well known by all players (in theory).

What do you mean by 'Meta'?
I'm a noob, on the subject.

Thanks,

K

Statistics: Posted by SilentWarrior — 08 Jul 2017, 19:14

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-07T17:52:45+02:00

a quick summary for 1v1 of what your priorities should be:
-allways try to expand (and rebuild after you got raided). for this you will e.g. need one factory building engies only on 10x10 maps and bigger (on 5x5 maybe 1 engie 3 tanks on repeatbuild).
- allways spend your mass, preferably in factories, which you should get up asap.(dont overbuild them though you only want to have as many as you need)
- do not powerstall
just with these (not including teching etc you can allready get to 1-1.5k so dont bother with the rest as long as you are not expanding/overflowing a lot of mass/stalling a lot of power in many of your games)
(you also should not have too many idle factories etc. since it doesnt help you having 15 factories if only 3 of them produce)

these points are the most importend ad you can ignore anything else for now (like the looooong blogs).

Statistics: Posted by Turinturambar — 07 Jul 2017, 17:52

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-07T17:09:53+02:00

Uhh, okay dude. Anyways on topic for OP:

Here is the Beginners Guide to Forged Alliance From the wiki.

If you care at all about playing the game against other players we suggest you read through this document and be able to understand the concepts.
It's also the minimum level of competence asked by a trainer upon you wanting them to train you, too; so i suggest you go check it out.
It's one of the best things to have taken note of besides the General 1v1 Guide. That you should try and take in a lil later on.

Gl op, don't let the soon incoming derail of this thread into a shitstorm discourage you!

Statistics: Posted by biass — 07 Jul 2017, 17:09

Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

2017-07-07T16:52:09+02:00

I think it's better to overcompensate on power when you're first starting off. It's overwhelming enough trying to deal with the other player, so operating at a neutral energy flow is something you try to do once you're comfortable and have a rhythm.

I usually recommend setting orders to build about twenty to thirty T1 pgens, then going back and reclaiming the things at T2. Slowly over-investing into pgens will hurt a player less than going into a power stall during a tech transition. At the higher levels you need to be more efficient because the extra mass will go to essential units and structures, but you can get away with the lazy, safe approach at mid and lower levels.

I still maintain it's beneficial to think of energy as a more finite resource. If you think of resources in terms of flow rather than absolute quantity, your mass income fluctuates wildly. You can obtain more mass by reclaiming units, buildings, and scenery. Mass is literally lying around on the ground. When the enemy sends more expensive units to attack you, you'll reclaim more mass by defeating them. But to get an extra twenty points of energy flow, your only choice is to build a pgen. If you don't build enough pgens, you just won't have power. Technically energy flow can become infinite if you build pgens indefinitely, but we both know it's not that way in practice because you need to build the structures and the structures need mass.

Anyway, I think the best thing to do with a new guy is get him in a situation where he has to focus on the fewest number of things. Patrol reclaim means he doesn't have to focus on reclaim orders. Spam building pgens then reclaiming the extra means he doesn't need to think about power as much and the redundancy makes him less vulnerable. Spam building factories means they'll naturally produce more troops as they upgrade their economy, making them safer as they tech up. If you get that stuff out of the way, they can focus more on their army and gameplay, which still has a lot of components and is still overwhelming.

Minimize what can be minimized and work from the more simple perspective. Build on more complex aspects of the macro once you're comfortable managing the rest of it.

If you cannot convey your point in under 100 words don't bother

"Get gud, scout more noob lol."

Statistics: Posted by Ars Nova — 07 Jul 2017, 16:52