Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-21T16:40:17+02:00

1) Billy even now is pretty damn good - shoot one into someone's low-level navy and it will rest in peace until you reclaim it and make another billy.

2) building changes ARE an issue, IceDreamer, for a few reasons - it fucks the cybrans since their bases are a joke to storm. Then it makes factions different in an area where all must be equal - the buildings produce the same resource, the same amount, have the same cost, etc so they must be the same! Cybran was feasible to defeat after deceiver and beetle nerfs, it has always been possible to defeat cybran.

Then there is this thing: before it was clear how many shots from an ACU were needed to take out a mex or how many strats were needed to snipe a capped mex or that you need 2 TMLs for a T3 pgen. With the HP changes, all that is f***ed and factions attacking UEF need more units to kill the same structure in one pass or their coms need to shoot more to kill their mex. This change unnecessarily screws up the perfect math of raiding. Keyword - UNNECESSARILY. As Blodir stated here (viewtopic.php?f=67&t=14146&p=145127), the HP changes have brought no benefit and they fucked the math for an arbitrary reason.

Just revert them. They've brought nothing good. Keep the mobile unit changes but revert building HPs. It's the simplest and the best solution to end people's frustration.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 21 Apr 2017, 16:40

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-18T18:18:04+02:00

If the kinetic billy thing becomes a thing then i'd say to give it insane speed but make it very fragile.
kE=0.5*m*v^2
So either it goes fast or it has enough mass to have stuff orbit around it (not that it wouldn't be awesome to have it interfere with nearby planes flight patterns as it goes near due to sheer gravitational pull)

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 18 Apr 2017, 18:18

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-18T13:57:21+02:00

Cyborg16 wrote:
Change the missile from a "baby nuke" to a "kinetic impactor". Make the shot powerful enough to punch through light shields, have tiny area-of-effect and high damage (e.g. 15,000 — enough to kill MEX, SMD and badly damage ACUs). Give it a high arc so it flies over many TMD and takes a while to impact. High build time so it can't be spammed.

This would make it a viable option to kill SMD and damage shipyards; to kill mexes too but only if close. Sniping SMD could break a turtle, but only vs light shields (e.g. 2 T2 gens or 1 T3, maybe less), and requires bringing the ACU forward due to limited range.

I think you underestimate the current validity of billy after these cost reductions, although I appreciate your idea. 12K damage in such a large radius is nothing to be sniffed at, and just in a recent game I had half my air base destroyed by a surprise shot. I think the cost vs effectiveness it currently is, is pretty reasonable- as I mentioned you can simply go t2 -> ras -> billy, and it is sustainable. So the ability to "rush" it is much greater.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 18 Apr 2017, 13:57

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-16T15:03:39+02:00

UEF Billy, cost is now 4x tml upgrade, 10x tml missile. It can be countered with tmd so...
5400m/315000e -> 6000m/200000e, missile cost -> 1800m/36000e. Can be valid to get after ras.

Okay, I'm no pro, but I have rarely seen the Billy being very effective. Care for a more radical change?

Change the missile from a "baby nuke" to a "kinetic impactor". Make the shot powerful enough to punch through light shields, have tiny area-of-effect and high damage (e.g. 15,000 — enough to kill MEX, SMD and badly damage ACUs). Give it a high arc so it flies over many TMD and takes a while to impact. High build time so it can't be spammed.

This would make it a viable option to kill SMD and damage shipyards; to kill mexes too but only if close. Sniping SMD could break a turtle, but only vs light shields (e.g. 2 T2 gens or 1 T3, maybe less), and requires bringing the ACU forward due to limited range.

Statistics: Posted by Cyborg16 — 16 Apr 2017, 15:03

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T13:02:46+02:00

Hmmm... I played last night and read log now. There is always some issues using subjective experience to guide how you want the game to be played.
But first i want to address Icedreamers comment. The reason why i made my mod initially was because i was unhappy with ACU and t1 bomber changes, and the automation of toggle plus turtle direction that was being taken to make it more noob friendly or whatever. The reason why these mods appeared is mainly because a group has control of the unit database and any suggestions made by noobs or "thermo players" are deemed crap. I have fixed the janus bomber in my pre august mod and posted at least 5 times but we still use a bomber that drops bombs from its wing tips and in 2 goes which with micro can be spread into 2 single drops on different targets in different direction.
Anyway galacticfear, i think your main issue with the mod are the changes that take time to adapt to especially if it keeps changing. Pre august balance with some of the current good stuff is the way to go in my opinion. Also the spread between TML and bombers vs buildings is too large in general. Bombers should be able to take out an Hq cost effectively if not intercepted, that is one thing the game really needs.

Statistics: Posted by Evildrew — 07 Apr 2017, 13:02

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T12:42:54+02:00

Untested, but sound logic with a great motive. Keep at it!

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 07 Apr 2017, 12:42

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T12:29:16+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
The ACU HP changes are the only change that's had any real impact that I can think of. Structure HP changes some find annoying, but don't really change that much other than Cybran getting TMLed, and everything else is... Well, not much has changed.

I really don't want to jackknife this thread but I've seen this a few too many times now regarding structure HP changes, that they don't actually make much of a difference to balance. Either, they do make a difference to balance, and possibly achieved what was initially intended; or, they don't, and were just some random gimmick introduced to the game for no plausible reason at all. Which is it? It's fine if it's the former and there are disagreements, i think things get extremely precarious and undermine the legitimacy of the balance team if it's the latter because it essentially proves the point of the dissenters.

Anyway, seems like a fun balance so far Gala. My favourite bit of course being that it is unranked.

I said unranked, Gorton.

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 07 Apr 2017, 12:29

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T01:29:38+02:00

I forgot to add earlier, same advice I gave BH: A comprehensive changelog of mod VS current FAF would be most helpful to your intended users

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 07 Apr 2017, 01:29

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T00:28:23+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
I still can't really see what prompted that opinion you know. The ACU HP changes are the only change that's had any real impact that I can think of. Structure HP changes some find annoying, but don't really change that much other than Cybran getting TMLed, and everything else is... Well, not much has changed. Bombers work rather than epic failing to do anything if not microed to ridiculous levels, I've seen no complaints about TMLs, T2 Arty, Engies, Hovertanks, Flak, the Selen, LABs, UEF T1 Arty, or indeed any of the other changes...

There's a lot of bandwagon-hopping going on around here right now. A lot of seeing a handful of issues and decrying 9 months of work as "Useless and not what anyone at all wanted". Well, I don't appreciate it.

Keep the focus A: On the ACTUAL issues with the changes, as you see them, and B: Put efforts into helping the main team to address them, instead of making a dozen balance mods, none of which actually change all that much about the game.

I respect your opinion, however I believe my efforts have already addressed the main issues And I have left in many of the "good" changes of recent patches, and probably a few more once I review changes since 3650 in detail.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 07 Apr 2017, 00:28

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-07T00:07:24+02:00

I still can't really see what prompted that opinion you know. The ACU HP changes are the only change that's had any real impact that I can think of. Structure HP changes some find annoying, but don't really change that much other than Cybran getting TMLed, and everything else is... Well, not much has changed. Bombers work rather than epic failing to do anything if not microed to ridiculous levels, I've seen no complaints about TMLs, T2 Arty, Engies, Hovertanks, Flak, the Selen, LABs, UEF T1 Arty, or indeed any of the other changes...

There's a lot of bandwagon-hopping going on around here right now. A lot of seeing a handful of issues and decrying 9 months of work as "Useless and not what anyone at all wanted". Well, I don't appreciate it.

Keep the focus A: On the ACTUAL issues with the changes, as you see them, and B: Put efforts into helping the main team to address them, instead of making a dozen balance mods, none of which actually change all that much about the game.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 07 Apr 2017, 00:07

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-06T22:23:43+02:00

Well, that is cause the current official balance is so far off from what this game used to be and plays more like a mod itself..

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 06 Apr 2017, 22:23

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-06T20:11:25+02:00

i just wanted to say that i find it somewhat amusing that there is a need to create so many balance mods these days.

also something something eq something

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 06 Apr 2017, 20:11

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-06T15:38:32+02:00

"Cybran stealth 350/5250 -> 800/12000 (like gun but 50% e, since it has e drain too) new hp +3000 build time 500-> 800 (like gun)

The aim was to give Cybran a better option for a t2 stage combat acu, as the health was really a limiting factor for mid pushes. Also good for combination with torp in the sea."

finaly someone noticed in what bad situation cybrans is with com vs com fight

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 06 Apr 2017, 15:38

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-06T14:48:05+02:00

Nice mod! Can't wait to test it.

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 06 Apr 2017, 14:48

Re: Superior Setons Balance Mod

2017-04-06T14:34:18+02:00

My life will never be the same after reading this

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 06 Apr 2017, 14:34