Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2017-03-29T07:29:17+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=14203 2017-03-29T07:29:17+02:00 2017-03-29T07:29:17+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=146072#p146072 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
If you now add anything like EQ to be rated then -> You can delete rating to make things easier instead because it has anyways 0 value. Rating is something to compare player skill on an equal base. I cant see that this is possible at all anymore with EQ beeing ranked. As i told before even 1v1 and teamgames in exactly the same gamemod are difficult to compare how you want to compare different balance ....


Al this balance whining like small children should stop. Either play the official patch or quit!

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 29 Mar 2017, 07:29


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2017-03-28T10:17:21+02:00 2017-03-28T10:17:21+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=146040#p146040 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
Happy for them to be rewarded for their hard work, but this doesn't sound right to me. If it's about publicity then maybe making tournaments is a better way to go about it.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 28 Mar 2017, 10:17


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2017-03-28T03:31:35+02:00 2017-03-28T03:31:35+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=146025#p146025 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]> Statistics: Posted by SpoCk0nd0pe — 28 Mar 2017, 03:31


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2017-03-19T02:27:38+02:00 2017-03-19T02:27:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145553#p145553 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
1. Decide on an official set of criteria for inclusion into rating.
2. Evaluate if EQ fits this criteria. If so, no probs. If not, remove it from rating.
3. Start evaluating other featured mods based on this criteria, and include them in rating if they pass.
4. Everyone can be nice to each other and enjoy playing the game in a friendly manner.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 19 Mar 2017, 02:27


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2017-03-18T20:27:40+02:00 2017-03-18T20:27:40+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145529#p145529 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>

i found raptors post to be quite nice so heres my reply to that:
Spoiler: show
thing being rated doesnt make them official. ofc this is debatable but we already have arbitrary rules like ffas are unranked - does that make then unofficial? anyway thats not a major concern, but in my eyes eq is just as official as it was before, but i dont mind being more official :D

as icedreamer explained, rating is a system and whats rated or not is decided on what is good data or not, and not if we want it to be the super approved balance. indeed there was a time when zep was against unranked games for exactly the same reason - its actually possible to abuse rating like this, if you spend a good deal of time on it. Having eq unranked may fit some peoples principles but in that state it may actually cause harm, or rather relative harm.

ok about secondary balance team outside the council -
im on the official balance team too. does that make things better? we do have communication between the balances and ideas are being swapped and so on. you can see bugfixes from eq like aeon tmd, ythotha aa, shield bounce, transports, bomber maneveraiblity in the official beta patches already, and more things are coming soon i guess like variable oc, a variant of some vet nerf, some t3/4 rebalance, and so on.

about patches - i wouldnt worry about that tbh, eq is kept up to date with beta patches and we get all the info before the public does so adjusting is quite easy. indeed we have just released an adjustment patch a couple of days ago. having an eq patch a week late is a strange concept when eq has been patched multiple times per day in the past, patch frequency isnt a problem.

yes the official balance team has been speeding up patches. theyre not as frequent as eq is on average though so they need to pick up some more pace anyway. not a concern.

keeping eq unranked has no benefits for its development. we dont aim to go off on other directions, thats not what eq is about. we always, always take what the current balance team is doing into account.


wesmania also said some things, which i thought would be nice to answer to as well
Spoiler: show
so you say you cant play eq exactly like you would current balance-
that depends on the extent - for me i play exactly like i do usually, i just do random shit pretty much. if you have a super precise bo that might be less efficient than usual sure, but you can pull off the same strategies as before. special care has been taken to make sure thats true. you can do the same usual things and you will be more or less fine. there are a couple of caveats that its nice to know, but for a mod that changes every unit in the game its not bad ; )

your examples of the mantis and tanks vs acu are commendable, but wrong. if you take a look at the changelog you will see that the mantis cost the same as the other t1 tanks, so 40v40 is a draw, depending on unit placement and micro as usual.

likewise the acu example is interesting because the t1 units were balanced with that in mind - it takes exactly the same number to kill an acu - 19 strikers for uef com (with 18 its alive on 250 hp). comparing to vanilla - 19 striker to kill uef com and 18 leave it on 500 hp.

so yeah. balance? xD

i take your point on the sudden announcement. i was kinda surprised it went through so quickly too, but it needed a server update so we had to slot it in at the time. perhaps waiting would have been more appropriate, but it happened :D

completely agree that the amount of work is irrelevant to the end result. however it does show that we take it seriously and that we have the time to keep it maintained, and that it has been tested and developed with care.

about the message behind eq being ranked, i think icedreamer answered that pretty well. rating doesn't care if you play faf or dominoes, but if playing dominoes has a perfect correlation with faf then that data actually makes an improvement, and if you can get good at dominoes then come to faf and wreck everyone the system indirectly suffers.


but whatever i guess, no one cares or something, anyway hope that clears things up for you <3

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 18 Mar 2017, 20:27


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2017-03-18T19:45:51+02:00 2017-03-18T19:45:51+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145525#p145525 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]> (and hopefully Setons), but not for every mod as phantom is NOT something that is even close to normal balance.

And this whole EQ is close enough deal is kind of bs. There is no way enough people play it to justify this.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 18 Mar 2017, 19:45


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2017-03-18T18:29:58+02:00 2017-03-18T18:29:58+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145524#p145524 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]> Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 18 Mar 2017, 18:29


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2017-03-18T17:56:43+02:00 2017-03-18T17:56:43+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145523#p145523 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
To go further, why are unit restricted games not rated then? A lot of games are played with only 1-2 units restricted, or with teleport off, and that is not any different in play, or not THAT much different, than EQ. Where does this stop?

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 18 Mar 2017, 17:56


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2017-03-18T17:41:36+02:00 2017-03-18T17:41:36+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145521#p145521 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]> I don't know what would be the side effect of having individual rating per mods, would be nice to discuss that.
do you think a "global" rating taking in count all other rating would be wise ? i'm not quite sure.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 18 Mar 2017, 17:41


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2017-03-18T17:36:45+02:00 2017-03-18T17:36:45+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145520#p145520 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
GLOBAL. If it was for me, all mods should be rated. Or (/and) all mods should have their specific rating.

Statistics: Posted by Downlord — 18 Mar 2017, 17:36


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2017-03-18T17:27:57+02:00 2017-03-18T17:27:57+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145519#p145519 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]> Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 18 Mar 2017, 17:27


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2017-03-18T17:26:33+02:00 2017-03-18T17:26:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145518#p145518 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>

737 unique players played 5+ games of Nomads since January 18th 2017.


you mean since the 15th February ?

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 18 Mar 2017, 17:26


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2017-03-18T17:16:58+02:00 2017-03-18T17:16:58+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145515#p145515 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
My reason for supporting it being rated is that IMO something should be massively, dramatically different to not be. As in, different enough that a person who is fantastic in the mod is utter crap in the main game, and vice versa, and that's simply not the case here. There are differences, sure, but a 2200 player will beat a 1600 rated player in EQ just the same as they would in the normal game, by about the same amount, no matter the experience, because the game just... Doesn't play THAT differently. You still balance eco the same way, still get intel the same way, still do... everything. It's still supcom.

We're really trying to avoid a situation where a player plays a huge amount on EQ (Or any other mod), inevitably becomes a much better player than when they begun, then plays normal games and has 2000 rating skills in reality, but only 800 rating from before they started playing the mod. It can create some horrible scenarios.

This is why in the last dev conference this problem was discussed, and the solution we sort of settled on was to expand the rating system. So we could have ladder, main FAF, setons, BO, EQ, Nomads etc etc, and then the game lobby could display the relevant one for the game you're in, and at other times display some kind of generated average. Couple that with a proper ranking where the rating number is hidden except for when you directly query a player through the client, and we should end in a good place that represents all players. Or at least most of them :)

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 18 Mar 2017, 17:16


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2017-03-18T16:59:47+02:00 2017-03-18T16:59:47+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145509#p145509 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
I am confident that most of the people here fully understand what the rating system here does. The conflation of rank and rating is unfortunate, but we know what we mean. Calling anyone upset about this too dumb to understand what is going on is not exactly the response we are looking for.

You can say that it isn't official at all all you want, and we are not arguing it being a featured mod here. We are arguing that it should NOT be rated, because rating should be for the official mod. EQ plays drastically differently than the main branch, and should not be lumped together with everything else.

Either give each mod it's own ranking, or don't rank any of the mods. You either have to pull them all in or none, otherwise it is special treatment.

:edit to respond to new numbers - Now you switch to all time, which is years right? EQ has been around for a long time. if that isn't 100 people in the last month, that is still a miserably tiny userbase.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 18 Mar 2017, 16:59


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2017-03-18T16:56:50+02:00 2017-03-18T16:56:50+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14203&p=145507#p145507 <![CDATA[Re: The Ranking of the EQ mod]]>
IceDreamer wrote:
Rating is not ranking. Anyone worrying or complaining here simply doesn't understand what has been done, what rating is, or why EQ has been allowed in.

Yes. Nomads, and maybe even BlackOps and/or other polished + maintained mods with significant player-bases will be considered for rating tracking.

No, it is not a second official anything. At all. It's a featured mod because it's is polished, it is maintained, and it has a playerbase (Those are the criteria). It is rated because it has a playerbase, that is all. It's not a ranking. It's a rating, of how good you are. Tracking rating in EQ is to avoid it causing severe rating-skill mismatches in the real game.

I will get the server guys to pull gamecount stats and see how big the playerbase is. If it does turn out to shrink, it'll probably be unrated.


Yes, they are using the wrong word. Yes, it annoys me too.
But no, they do mean what we mean when we say rating. Saying that they don't understand what rating is is simply untrue.


It is rated because it has a playerbase, that is all.

There has been playerbases of several mods for years, and as an example, many people still play diamond regularly. it's broken rn in FAF afaik, but people just play offline so they can use their favoured mod.


IceDreamer wrote:
So I got a few DB queries done. Unless a mistake was made with the queries, and I don't think one was, 1309 unique players took part in 2454 EQ games since January 18th 2017. That, to me, is a good playerbase (certainly enough to be featured), and is significant enough to require the rating engine to track their inevitable increasing skill as a result of playing.


To be fair here, you can check the actual replays and a large amount of them are people opening the game on their own and messing around for a few minutes.
Stats alone don't show that.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 18 Mar 2017, 16:56


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