Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-20T02:42:50+02:00

Yakmann wrote:
I feel like discussing this whole topic, especially if we include arguments based on "the players would feel this and that if we reset ladder/rating", is somewhat problematic until we get a greater amount of players to actually be active in the forums. I'm pretty sure that most of the players don't actually know that this discussion is going on at the moment. Increasing communication within the community will make polls and discussions like this much more representative. Because right know we can only speculate what consequences resetting ladder would have for the behaviour of the other players.

I think that those who want, can find their way to forums quite easily. And those who don't, well if they don't care enough, too bad.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 20 Dec 2016, 02:42

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-20T00:09:51+02:00

Lich King wrote:
Writing the same code twice denotes a bad programmer.

Please cut the trolling. Of course it is a little bit different code.
Even if it was just 2 lines now:

Code:: updateRating('global', playerId, gameResult) updateRating('ladder', playerId, gameResult)

I'd still need to add a new line like

Code:: updateRating('season', playerId, gameResult)

That's why i said "simply speaking". But you already know that.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 20 Dec 2016, 00:09

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T15:29:43+02:00

I feel like discussing this whole topic, especially if we include arguments based on "the players would feel this and that if we reset ladder/rating", is somewhat problematic until we get a greater amount of players to actually be active in the forums. I'm pretty sure that most of the players don't actually know that this discussion is going on at the moment. Increasing communication within the community will make polls and discussions like this much more representative. Because right know we can only speculate what consequences resetting ladder would have for the behaviour of the other players.

Statistics: Posted by Yakmann — 19 Dec 2016, 15:29

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T06:58:13+02:00

Brutus5000 wrote:
Adding an additional season ladder is easy. Why? Because we already know where the current ladder system takes action. So we more or less "duplicate" the existing code (simply speaking). Of course it would still have the same bugs as the current rating system.

Writing the same code twice denotes a bad programmer.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 19 Dec 2016, 06:58

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T02:45:20+02:00

Lich King wrote:
Let's look again at the joke about a 10-billion pen to write in vacuum and a pencil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQy1DH38E5g).

Writing code to reset ladder every 6 months/year or to execute the suggestion above is the same as developing a pen to write in space for 10 billion dollars. Fixing the current ladder bugs in the pencil. Do you want to take the long and costly way or writing something that in the end is not even certain to be better or do you want to take the way that takes care of the problem quicker, more efficiently and does not displease the whole community?

You did not appply that analogy correctly.
According to your example it is more easy to find the (unknown) number of rating bugs and fix it. And you also assume that writing code for an additional ladder system would be hard. Let me explain to you why this is not the case:

The bugs are hard to reproduce. And a lot of error reports are not actually errors, but wrong interpretation of trueskill or induced by weird display/update mechanisms of the client. It takes a lot of analyzing and good intuition to find the bug. The fixing itself may be easy, but reproducing the cause is the most difficult task.
Adding an additional season ladder is easy. Why? Because we already know where the current ladder system takes action. So we more or less "duplicate" the existing code (simply speaking). Of course it would still have the same bugs as the current rating system.

Let's assume one day we fix all rating issues. A season ladder system would still be a good idea (see Dialbo 2 / 3) for example. Every season people come back to the community and play again. Maybe it can be bound to a certain release and a hall of fame. Who doesnt want to be the master of 3568?
A ladder reset however takes something away from people that they have achieved. People don't like that and I totally understand that.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 19 Dec 2016, 02:45

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T02:16:20+02:00

Lich King wrote:
Let's look again at the joke about a 10-billion pen to write in vacuum and a pencil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQy1DH38E5g).

Writing code to reset ladder every 6 months/year or to execute the suggestion above is the same as developing a pen to write in space for 10 billion dollars. Fixing the current ladder bugs in the pencil. Do you want to take the long and costly way or writing something that in the end is not even certain to be better or do you want to take the way that takes care of the problem quicker, more efficiently and does not displease the whole community?

Lol nice try but graphite is extremely dangerous in space because free particles can go into systems and cause fires

And thus the Russians use the pen now too

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 19 Dec 2016, 02:16

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T00:34:22+02:00

Except it doesnt mean its bad decision if you dont like it

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 19 Dec 2016, 00:34

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T00:34:10+02:00

Every other multiplayer game out there showed us that it's a better system. Your comparism is not even close to truth.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 19 Dec 2016, 00:34

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-19T00:24:18+02:00

Let's look again at the joke about a 10-billion pen to write in vacuum and a pencil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQy1DH38E5g).

Writing code to reset ladder every 6 months/year or to execute the suggestion above is the same as developing a pen to write in space for 10 billion dollars. Fixing the current ladder bugs in the pencil. Do you want to take the long and costly way or writing something that in the end is not even certain to be better or do you want to take the way that takes care of the problem quicker, more efficiently and does not displease the whole community?

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 19 Dec 2016, 00:24

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-18T00:14:33+02:00

Suggestion:

Do a forever-ladder and add "seaons ladder".
Season ladder games also contribute to the forever-ladder. Season results are archived after season.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 18 Dec 2016, 00:14

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-17T23:29:53+02:00

Lich King wrote:
Resetting players' ratings will make them not desire to play this game. If their ratings are reset every year or so, where is the incentive to work harder and improve? They will see no point in that and they will quit.

Better fix the bugs and leave it at that

For me it would be an incentive to start playing again. Having a "high" rating of 1400 because of having played before ladder and rating got separated, really is not fun. Every time I attempt to play I am shouted at because of "not playing correctly for someone of my skill level", "not knowing the map by heart", "doing the wrong thing". The common advice of "play a few games to correct your score" really does not help, because - well - it is not fun playing like this. I bet I am not the only one having this kind of issue.

Statistics: Posted by Benoker — 17 Dec 2016, 23:29

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-15T19:28:16+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
This has just been discussed extensively in today's dev conference. Looks like in the future, we'd like to iron out the few remaining actual bugs, and then begin a shift toward a Rocket League style "Divisions" system where the actual rating number is hidden from the player, and divisions are used to balance games instead. It'll be a while to get the full thing in effect probably, but it has a lot of promise. Also discussed were seasons, where ladder ratings are soft-reset every 6 months or so, and things like higher deviation for faster rating changes, rating deviation for players who take long breaks, and making it harder to go down a division than to go up. There's a lot to do and discuss, but this topic was heard loud and clear.

I guess pple aren't seeing this anymore so let me bring it to the end of the thread

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 15 Dec 2016, 19:28

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-15T04:54:31+02:00

Resetting players' ratings will make them not desire to play this game. If their ratings are reset every year or so, where is the incentive to work harder and improve? They will see no point in that and they will quit.

Better fix the bugs and leave it at that

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 15 Dec 2016, 04:54

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-14T21:20:38+02:00

I would gladly discuss the details of the ideal ladder system, however I would prefer we'd stay realistic and act on what we can reasonably expect to happen in the next 6 months instead of living in a fantasy

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 14 Dec 2016, 21:20

Re: Reset the ladder

2016-12-14T21:15:40+02:00

Lol, ithilis making decisions for FAF confirmed

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 14 Dec 2016, 21:15