Paisley wrote:
Wow that was a lot of answers... thank you guys, now I see the case different!
But frigates can't attack subs at all, so I have to mix in subs I guess? how much?
I remember to play Setons and had a good amount of frigates, attacked the other navy production and find out I couldn't do anything against the 3-4 subs which where laying in the harbour...
Just thinking, what about Auroras? They don't have the HP from frigates, but good DPS and can't be attacked by subs? Could I protect water with auroras while going directly T2 navy?
I never build shields, now I will. but hover flak? The cruiser just freaking rocks, do I need anymore AA?
Flaks are good because they are cheaper. On top of that they don't require you to have a t2 navy factory building them and the time of a cruiser to build it. That factory could be building destroyers instead, as long as you have a t2 factory that is building flaks. On top of that, they have good anti gunship capabilities. Cruisers can destroy those too, but flaks are better at it. However, just as hovertanks and shields, they are slower. So on some maps it might not pay off as much. I think a mix can be useful, and in the beginning of the navy phase it would be more valueable to get another destroyer instead of a cruiser.
Auroras usually don't wreck navy, but they can if they outnumber the opponent. They don't take long to build and its possible that you outspam your enemey with auroras. If you manage to get more mass into the battle in the same time, you can even win with less efficient units. Usually however, your enemey can retreat their frigates that are wounded and even reclaim them to fuel their production of new frigates. If they get a frigate spam, countering with an aurora spam is a bad idea. However, getting the build capacity to quickly build frigates is alot more expensive. Especially on small maps where your enemey has no space to drag your auroras over the water, its a waste. But i would advise against this tactic unless you are sure you can pull it off. But spamming t2 hovertanks and shield tanks can be a possible way to stall your enemey from reclaiming your own navy if you loose.
Heaven made a video about the subs vs frigates point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HZpHB_ ... nel=Heaven
As said before, torp bombers are the perfect counter against subs. They work well against frigates, too, i think. If you can employ them, your enemey will just waste his mass on t1 subs if he builds them. Most important point is "raidability", meaning: can you use your frigate to cause destruction? Yes? Then frigate is certainly the way to go. They are cheap and survive long enough against submarines. Through the entire game, even on T3, they are your meat shields, there to provide distraction to your enemeys gunfire (especially UEF frigates). So they are built to be able to deal damage even when a single sub attacks them. Other than that, time is the essential factor. The longer your frigates will need to be in battle, the more imporant it is for you to not get too much submarine fire. If you manage to win a navy fight close to your naval yard (for example on 12 the pass) but a single enemey sub survives, that's ok. You can build your own sub and use your frigates to attack or to secure the reclaim. But if you try to attack your enemey and he has several subs surviving, each second they keep staying alive is poison for you. It might be better to retreat into torp launcher range and to get your own subs, or better, torp launchers. On T2, destroyers should be able to deal with submarines most of the time. For UEF you have to consider building coopers depending on your enemeys composition (for example if he builds T2 subs). Torp launchers sound good, but they don't do the trick against frigates. 2 Frigates cost as much as one and they can without issues beat a single torp launcher (T1). On T2, destroyers will have more range than they have. They have one purpose, and that is, to keep enemey submarines outside of their range. They can be good if a frigate refuses to fire at them or can't fire at them, for example since a navy factory blocks it. But investing that sort of mass early on can mean that you loose a naval battle outside of the torp launchers range, and provide your enemey with the reclaim and ship advantage to beat you in the T2 stage or to charge right at your navy with frigates.
Usually its a good way to start by building a navy factory, then starting first with a frigate. If your enemey attacks he risks leaving you reclaim, when he is there with his ships you might have another half frigate. It's especially dangerous to build subs as they can be shot via ground fire inside the factory by the frigate. That basically means a quick death and waste of mass. For the beginning of the navy phase its good to build more navy factories, enemey frigates can shoot down engineers, but not factories. Once you are sure the enemey can't just rush into your yard you should consider going t2. Through the entire game you should try to build frigates, later on their cost is laughable but their hitpoints are good. They can deny the enemey from charging into your navy and they take fire from other enemey ships like destroyers, especially if your enemey doesn't scout properly.
So if there is anything to remember its that to use submarines you have to be able to accept the time they take to destroy frigates. On the other hand, if your enemey is able to wait for them to chew through your frigates, then you should reconsider your strategy. Submarines on their own are usually not good at raiding the enemey, the only thing they are good at is not dieing against frigates. Having only a few can make your enemey reconsider navy battles in certain areas of the map. If he moves frigates too far away with too little anti sub weapon, he wastes them for nothing.
Of course, if you push your enemey completly out, you can try to swap out frigates (reclaim or just change production) for other units. For example cruisers, especially if you are not aeon. Whatever it takes to deny your enemey to come back and whatever it takes for you to damage your enemey. Having some left over can be good to serve as a front against a hoverspam the enemey might try to get the navy back though.Statistics: Posted by GrilledChicken — 19 Dec 2016, 22:17
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