Forged Alliance Forever

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-16T04:50:38+02:00

Freedomfighter wrote:
It has nothing to do with the nano upgrades themselves, it is to do with having the nano upgrade alongside t2 or not.
nobody makes UEF nano cause they are the turtle faction and t2 is the turtle upgrade. So no one knows if UEF nano is OP or not because nobody gets it, they get t2 instead.

Whereas you can get t2 and nano with sera and the combination is OP.
And atm nano is quite strong, it is more to do with the fact you can get it earlier in the game and therefore it has more relevance for longer. Rather than it being a late t2 upgrade that you only make as an all in.

Nobody made UEF nano because:
1)In early stages it was hard to get it due to high cost and it had to compite with cheaper T2 with HP+regen+tech;
2)In mid game Shield-Nano combo was useless as when you use shield, you couldn't use nano and than again Shield-t2 was better and cheaper option;
3)In late game Nano was useless, while t3 is super usefull.

Even Sera 2d gun is in better state than old UEF nano.

It doesn't matter what stats UEF nano has. Current UEF nano also has these issues. But at least you choose between 2 equal cost upgrades when you prepare combat ACU in early stages.

On the other hand, Sera nano will work well with any upgrade you can get with it. It won't get obselite by t2/t3 and it won't become useless in later stages with 2d nano upgrade. This simple fact doesn't make such nano any stronger as an upgrade, it makes nano used as an upgrade.

There is nothing wrong with ability to get Nano+T2 here. If you look at numbers, for 1200+800 mass you get 60+10 hp/sec and 3k+2k hp. Is it a lot different from old sera Nano with 2000 mass for 70 hp/sec and 6k hp?

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 16 Nov 2016, 04:50

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-16T01:25:37+02:00

holy christ calm down

Statistics: Posted by biass — 16 Nov 2016, 01:25

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-16T01:17:21+02:00

Freedomfighter wrote:
nobody makes UEF nano cause they are the turtle faction and t2 is the turtle upgrade.

You take that back! You better take that sh*t back right now! UEF being better during lategame does not at all mean that they have to turtle during other parts of the game! Just because a faction is more tanky does not at all mean that it is to be played in a turtling fashion!

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 16 Nov 2016, 01:17

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T21:25:11+02:00

What?

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 15 Nov 2016, 21:25

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T20:39:57+02:00

It has nothing to do with the nano upgrades themselves, it is to do with having the nano upgrade alongside t2 or not.
nobody makes UEF nano cause they are the turtle faction and t2 is the turtle upgrade. So no one knows if UEF nano is OP or not because nobody gets it, they get t2 instead.

Whereas you can get t2 and nano with sera and the combination is OP.
And atm nano is quite strong, it is more to do with the fact you can get it earlier in the game and therefore it has more relevance for longer. Rather than it being a late t2 upgrade that you only make as an all in.

Statistics: Posted by Freedomfighter — 15 Nov 2016, 20:39

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T03:11:02+02:00

bombing off 5000 energy just to have a hope of damaging another acu does not sound fun or "balanced" to me

Statistics: Posted by biass — 15 Nov 2016, 03:11

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T03:04:52+02:00

1200 = gun + 2 extra energy storages.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 15 Nov 2016, 03:04

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T02:03:27+02:00

Lich
Might want to just add this in
100 regen a second makes the UEF acu invulnerable in ACU on ACU fights

Statistics: Posted by biass — 15 Nov 2016, 02:03

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-15T03:04:15+02:00

I'll just put this (viewtopic.php?f=67&t=12864) out there.

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 15 Nov 2016, 01:58

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T23:34:59+02:00

keyser wrote:
Spoiler: show
About Keyser replay its kinda non related situation to see how strong UEF nano is, while he will win combat even whiteout nano, while have biger army, full map control and acu dont get much dmg by enemy.

First i'm sera not uef. Second i don't have full control at all. and army were more or less the same. (mine was little bigger if i remember well) stop spreading bs.
and i don't think i would have win without the nano, against a stealth + gun com.

Keyser keep calm, and rewatch your replay again (i do it now) You probably see it as player and not as observer where see whole map. That game was decide before that fight, you have 41Thams and 26 zhue (cost as tham) +14selen he have 40 mantis you have better maneure and he do very few shots to your acu, so whiteotu nano you will have about 5000hp less (finish him with 11000) but 3K is from nano itself. But i was wrong that you have whole map control, it was cca same. Rewatch your replay and dont piss off others that spread bs.

Yes you have seraphin nano, but sera nano its same as was uef nano with 3000hp boost.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 14 Nov 2016, 23:34

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T22:44:56+02:00

About Keyser replay its kinda non related situation to see how strong UEF nano is, while he will win combat even whiteout nano, while have biger army, full map control and acu dont get much dmg by enemy.

First i'm sera not uef. Second i don't have full control at all. and army were more or less the same. (mine was little bigger if i remember well) stop spreading bs.
and i don't think i would have win without the nano, against a stealth + gun com.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 14 Nov 2016, 22:44

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T21:36:21+02:00

well, sera doesnt need any nerfs, so if you dont come up with better ideas, you can keep the irony/trolling for yourself....

Statistics: Posted by Hzale — 14 Nov 2016, 21:36

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T20:55:07+02:00

Hzale wrote:
compared to the new uef nano, the sera one has 33% higher stats (costs and output), if its op because you can still have it early and with t1 pgens, but 60hp/s is too much compared to 40 hp/s (uef one) maybe just make the sera one like the new uef nano.

Good idea

And while we're at it. Just make the uef and aeon shield upgrades exactly the same as well. Give all the units the same stats as the other factions so the game is perfectly balanced.

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 14 Nov 2016, 20:55

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T20:47:30+02:00

compared to the new uef nano, the sera one has 33% higher stats (costs and output), if its op because you can still have it early and with t1 pgens, but 60hp/s is too much compared to 40 hp/s (uef one) maybe just make the sera one like the new uef nano.

Statistics: Posted by Hzale — 14 Nov 2016, 20:47

Re: nano sera is op

2016-11-14T15:44:51+02:00

Zock wrote:
Spoiler: show
What none of this people, including you, did was z) test it in beta (or now, if that's too much asked) and post some replays. So the values are based on opinions in the balance team, my/our own tests and by taking into account the best arguments about it in the public forum. Just yelling that change X is bad or change Y is better doesn't do much.

Apart from the fact that just because UEF nano could be good with 2000 bonus HP, doesn't mean that's what sera nano should have, even when it has the same price. There are far more factors influencing how strong something should be than pure cost.

Here you can see why keysers feedback is taken much more into account than yours and others. Though one replay against a weaker opponent doesn't say much, nano might be too strong or not, this replay is a good start but not enough to warrant a change yet. That needs more replays and of equal skilled opponents.

Ill do shitons of tests with uef nano, not in beta, yes but its pointles while point is same. Icedremer do also shitons of tests also not in beta, but point was same. We together do X time more tests with UEF nano as everyone else together, so we know about that more as some random folk that have theorycrafting opinion or play single game and have that feeling.

If you want some concrete replay, lets try this: 5412452
Basicly its UEF gun+nano ACU vs aeon double gun + shield acu (Aeon upgrades was more expensive and constantly drain 150e for shield). There was some tanks but this sitution was mosly betwen acu vs acu UEF one was hardly superior and kill Aeon whiteout any problems even when Aeon acu get shield recharg.

About Keyser replay its kinda non related situation to see how strong UEF nano is, while he will win combat even whiteout nano, while have biger army, full map control and acu dont get much dmg by enemy.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 14 Nov 2016, 15:44