Forged Alliance Forever

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T15:39:57+02:00

A little summary:

2nd and xxx numbered accounts for non-malicious purposes are allowed
People should report users that they suspect have a lower rating than they should, people seemingly losing games on purpose, and they should also report people making accounts repeatedly

If you feel that nothing happens, ask.

Locked.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 25 May 2016, 15:39

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T15:32:53+02:00

You can't lose the respect for me that you didn't have to begin with so I'm not all that bothered honestly.

I brought up that old message because you claim you report people and nothing happens. That message is the most recent report from you that I could find. If you have made any further reports since then I obviously haven't received them and of course I am unable to act on reports I didn't actually receive. Messaging a single mod on the chat to ask if somebody is person X and then dropping a replay for them to check is not a report. Time and time again people have been asked to report things through the pm system on the forums.

You claim we don't do anything and yet I have given evidence of us taking actions as the result of your reports so now you're trying to make me look bad instead. Funny how you can claim that my response was emotional when it is in fact more calm and professional than your posts, not to mention the report I was referring to considering its title. But of course, by all means continue to delude yourself that I am out of line but sending a report with the title "the mods are a joke" is somehow appropriate.

The actual contents of your message hasn't even been posted, only the title and the nature of the message (a report),visionik's response and the eventual result. I must also point out that in both instances where I referred to these reports I have omitted the name of the user in question, a courtesy you didn't grant that user so tell me again how you care about privacy.

Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 25 May 2016, 15:32

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T14:29:53+02:00

We don't all go to Aelous, forum readers also deserve their dose of daily drama

On more serious dose, it seems the mods are quite justified to answer attacks. There was an accusation of "not doing anything" it seems that after all something was done....

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 25 May 2016, 14:29

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T14:08:32+02:00

what counts as a game being "ruined?" you losing?

maybe someone gets killed in 1st 10 minutes and the killer is auto branded a smurf?

also LD is perfectly justified on giving evidence of action, cool off....

also also, this is aeolus now? discussing mod actions in aeolus is an anti riot measure, i thought this was forums, different place, or no?

Statistics: Posted by biass — 25 May 2016, 14:08

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T13:54:18+02:00

This is just getting sad now. Even I've never been in an argument where I'm defending a useless position against 5 people who are all more qualified to speak on it than I am.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 25 May 2016, 13:54

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T13:39:52+02:00

TheKoopa wrote:
It's quite simple. You call out mods, mods provide proof that your claims are incorrect. Why you're getting all salty about them sharing a pm is beyond me, it's not like you linked nudes or had some private story, they're not even sharing the content of the pm beyond the title and what it was about.

A private message is a private message. Now you argue "ya, but the envelope is not!". If people discuss mod decisions in any way on aelous it results in warning/ban but mods can move private content into public area. Are you serious now?
And how did I call out mods here? I talked a specific mod who apparently didn't punish the 2k player despite haven gotten the report from me (no report on adminstr. action page and 2k player came back).
Finally, I dont even know why my report from forever ago was brought up by him. In case you didnt even read my pms (which I assume you didnt based on your post): I had reported a smurf multiple times, incl replay Id and screenshots on aelous. For months I got ignored, told "only x or x can fix". After months I talk directly to x and guess what: he says "noone (as in no mod) ever told me!". I get upset with mods and now mods come together here saying: buhuuuu, the smurf was removed half a year later, whats your problem?
And of course 2k players dont mind smurfs - they cant ruin their games, simple logic, or is there a 4 k player pretending to be a 2 k smurf? xD
Gimme a break here.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 25 May 2016, 13:39

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T13:30:18+02:00

Blackster wrote:
@ Legion Darrath
I lost heaps of respect for you as a mod. Justifying such actions even when called out is unworthy of a mod. I dont think you could have made it any clearer you acted on a personal-emotional rather than a professional level.
Go through the messages I sent to the mod group in order to get some context before you spew hand-picked one-liners.
Earlier you suggested I should send a pm to the mod group? Why, so a year later it ends up here again? Seems rather hypocritical.

If mods act only when being send a pm on the forum and stay inactive on aelous when problems including screenshots are reported, why are they mods there actually to begin with?

Thanks for deraling this smurf-related thread with your "I have to defend my wise guys" messages.

@ Blodir
I dont think I have a distorted view on this issue. In fact, I have mentioned in this thread that smurfs are very rare to begin with and hence I cannot even remember the last time I had an issue with them and reported them accordingly (well, except the one I mentioned here).
What is hard to understand for me is that even when I present an in my opinion clear case of a problematic smurf behavior (apparently not punished by a mod) quite a lot of people here say "no big deal" / "life is rough" yada yada.

It's quite simple. You call out mods, mods provide proof that your claims are incorrect. Why you're getting all salty about them sharing a pm is beyond me, it's not like you linked nudes or had some private story, they're not even sharing the content of the pm beyond the title and what it was about.

Now, about smurfing: I honestly don't know what eggroll is talking about. In my numerous games, I have practically never met smurfs (malicious or 2nd accounts). There are exceptions of course, but 2k players don't smurf at all (with the exception of *cough* TheUnpwnable *cough*), at least not to a point where "all games are ruined."

Then again, I am 1500 and didn't really spend much time in the sub 1k category and mostly played with friends when I was 1100.

Now, back on topic boys.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 25 May 2016, 13:30

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T13:10:08+02:00

@ Legion Darrath
I lost heaps of respect for you as a mod. Justifying such actions even when called out is unworthy of a mod. I dont think you could have made it any clearer you acted on a personal-emotional rather than a professional level.
Go through the messages I sent to the mod group in order to get some context before you spew hand-picked one-liners.
Earlier you suggested I should send a pm to the mod group? Why, so a year later it ends up here again? Seems rather hypocritical.

If mods act only when being send a pm on the forum and stay inactive on aelous when problems including screenshots are reported, why are they mods there actually to begin with?

Thanks for deraling this smurf-related thread with your "I have to defend my wise guys" messages.

@ Blodir
I dont think I have a distorted view on this issue. In fact, I have mentioned in this thread that smurfs are very rare to begin with and hence I cannot even remember the last time I had an issue with them and reported them accordingly (well, except the one I mentioned here).
What is hard to understand for me is that even when I present an in my opinion clear case of a problematic smurf behavior (apparently not punished by a mod) quite a lot of people here say "no big deal" / "life is rough" yada yada.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 25 May 2016, 13:10

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T13:02:52+02:00

Blackster wrote:
...

I don't think anyone disagrees that a 2k rated player playing on a 1.2k rated account is a problem. It's the frequency and moderator response that is under question.

I believe that your view on the severity of the issue is distorted by the two points I mentioned: you are personally involved and thus blow the issue out of proportion a bit & you place all the smurfs into the same category, because you are not able to easily tell the difference between say a 1600 and a 2000 player - it's very difficult for a lower skilled player to assess the skill that higher level players possess, very similarly to how a lower skilled player has difficulties understanding the skill difference between themselves and higher skilled players (why I referred to Dunning-Kruger). It isn't a very big problem if a 1600 player is playing on a 1400 account, natural inconsistency in the rating system (being able to choose maps and teams) accounts for more than that.

The reality is, there's not very many 2k rated players and many of them seriously overrated. It's way more likely the <50 games 1400 you played against is within 200 points of their original rating than they are some pro in disguise. In fact sometimes old 1800-2000 rated players come back with a new account and end up in 1500-1700 range --> making a new account was probably a good choice in this case anyway, instead of "ruining" a lot of games by being overrated with low deviation (and losing a lot of them which is really demotivating btw) they "ruined" only a couple of games with very high deviation. This applies to all rating ranges btw.

Malicious smurfing (creating a low rated account to rape noobs, and lose some games on purpose to keep the rating down) should of course be punished, and maybe there could even be faster mod response to this, but seriously it's a pretty minor problem.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 25 May 2016, 13:02

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T12:32:07+02:00

If you are attacking my team by saying that we didn't do anything then you bet your ass I am going to point out the circumstances of your report and how we actually did do something. The title of the message was important since you were already attacking us for not doing anything before you had even made the report!

This is the second time somebody claimed we didn't do something when, as I have pointed out twice now, we actually do take actions.

Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 25 May 2016, 12:32

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T12:00:16+02:00

Blodir wrote:
Your arguments stand on a very uncertain ground, because they are based on experiences that you have very clear emotional connection to. Emotional bias makes it very difficult to stay objective.

Just because I encountered a problem with a smurf doesn't mean I am an emotional wreck unable to use reason. What kind of argument is that? I have laid out questions here which i connect with problematic smurfs - instead of debunking them you come up with above statement. Not helpful imo.

Blodir wrote:
Again, I don't see any response to there being "legit" (or at least "less bad") reasons to smurf, just you recounting your tales of how you were wronged by smurfs.

If I was wronged is up for you to decide. I think in a 4v4 7 were "wronged" which resulted in no noticable punishment for him (again, he was called out and lied).
I looked through the thread and saw "legit reasons" for smurfing:
- hiding identiy/make it harder to detect who you are actually playing against (was linked)
- 2nd account for testing (dont know what this means)
- losing password/new computer? (didnt see this in this thread)

Usually all reflect some selfish reason resulting in others suffering from such games, especially when players lie in lobby. If even a mod knows the 1100 rated is a 2k player - why can he not simply get a 2k rating?

Blodir wrote:
I don't really understand what you mean by "pop psychology", words and concepts exist to be used. You don't have to be a genius to understand what many of those concepts mean. I guess you don't however, since you decided it was tbetter to call it "pop psychology" and completely avert the point rather than give an argument

If you dont understand what I mean with pop psychology, look the term up. It refers to simple to grasp and easy to convey to a broad public concepts which does not mean that they are neccesarily invalid or wrong, tho they tend to oversimplify things. Catchy phrases people can throw around to look smart.

Blodir wrote:
lol

I was saying I am out of the discussion with briang.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 25 May 2016, 12:00

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T11:46:47+02:00

@ Viba
What is it with this anti-GQ obsession. Imo its the best estimator for a balanced game overall. I don't understand this bashing. Of course I sometimes ask: whats your real rating (if suspicious game number/rating ratio) and balance accordingly. If I have little additional info, GQ simply is the best option. What's your alternative again?

@ Legion Darrath
What is it with you in this thread? Second time you post in public when you got which private (!) message on the forum, now even with the title of the message. We can't argue in public about mod actions but mods can put out such information just like that? Especially when quoting it out of context. Shame on you

If there is a player constantly joining my game in that second, you want me to post such a report on the forum instead of a pm in aeolus? Did I get that right, ya?

Statistics: Posted by --- — 25 May 2016, 11:46

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T11:50:00+02:00

Blackster wrote:
Yay for pop psychology. Always fun, tho not always spot-on.
That aside, if you read my first post again you hopefuly will see how far off you are with your statements alltogether, at least when referring to what I have written. Once you reread I ld appreciate if you elaborated on why my "statement stands on very uncertain ground".

Your arguments stand on a very uncertain ground, because they are based on experiences that you have very clear emotional connection to. Emotional bias makes it very difficult to stay objective.

Again, I don't see any response to there being "legit" (or at least "less bad") reasons to smurf, just you recounting your tales of how you were wronged by smurfs.

I don't really understand what you mean by "pop psychology", words and concepts exist to be used. You don't have to be a genius to understand what many of those concepts mean. I guess you don't however, since you decided it was better to call it "pop psychology" and completely avert the point rather than give an argument

Blackster wrote:
I am done and outta here.

lol

----------------

Btw for the record, I do agree that game quality is a pretty nice direction giving indicator. 90% balance is certainly more likely to be more balanced game than 80%

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 25 May 2016, 11:45

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T11:06:18+02:00

Blackster:

On the 25th of October 2014 you sent us a message titled "Our mods are a frikkin joke" to complain about a specific user. Visionik himself responded to this message stating that he would keep a close eye on the situation but that as annoying as the situation was there were more important things to worry about. He also assured you that the issue would be investigated and implored you not to title your messages in such a way in the furture. As pointed out in one of my earlier posts, all of this user's accounts were banned in February 2015.

Since then I have received no further reports from you.

Blackster wrote:
IceDreamer wrote:[...]and evidence of the moderator's confirmation of smurf and subsequent inaction, in order to force an open response.

This would require people to screenshot each of such chats with mods. That would reflect a devastating trust-issue with mods in general. Not very desirable. At least I never even thought about doing such things. Maybe I should :p

A better solution would be to use the pm system on the forums so all of us receive the same message at once like we have asked people to do repeatedly.

Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 25 May 2016, 11:06

Re: What's with all the smurfs lately?

2016-05-25T08:44:18+02:00

Blackster wrote:
Exactly. Some are over-, some underrated. That's why in the long run, 95 % will result in more balanced games than 80 %. To propose that in the long run a GQ of 80 % will give you as many and as balanced games as you would get with a 95 % GQ imo is silly.

Statistics: Posted by Viba — 25 May 2016, 08:44