Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T19:22:08+02:00

Do we know what it's using to determine if it's submerged or not? Would it be possible to treat it like a surfaced ship if its guns are above water, otherwise treat it like a submerged ship? In a sense is it any different than differentiating between a surfaced and submerged submarine? Surfaced ships can be seen and shot at, and can shoot at you. Whereas submerged ships can't shoot or be shot at except with AOE or torpedos, and need to be seen with sonar.

Edit: Also, wasn't there some kind of fix for a similar issue with ACU shooting from the edge of the water?

Statistics: Posted by CodingSquirrel — 03 May 2016, 19:22

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T17:15:01+02:00

Swol wrote:
[e]asily id[e]ntifiabl[e] as pr[e]tty unsporting.

Statistics: Posted by Viba — 03 May 2016, 17:15

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T15:04:40+02:00

I agree it's a pain in the ass. But is it any worse of a problem than a mantis rear ending an engie for an infinite amount of time when headed in the same direction? Not sure it deserves a rewrite of a game engie given some of the other issues.

I wouldn't normally think about building a sonar on maps like canis but i don't think it's an unreasonable habit to get into when any water is involved given how simple a solution it is. And anyone t1 bombing sonars to park exps in the water would be easily identifiable as pretty unsporting.

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 03 May 2016, 15:04

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T14:36:54+02:00

@Swol
I think you miss the point of the problem.
Also, keep in mind another crucial number: t2 Sonar = 1400 HP -> easy to kill.
I assume you don't play on smaller maps with small water spots?

Statistics: Posted by --- — 03 May 2016, 14:36

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T12:41:53+02:00

.......................Mass..............Range
Megalith............37500.............64
Ythotha.............25000.............45
Flood T2 Sonar....120................230

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 03 May 2016, 12:41

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T11:10:08+02:00

Megalith same issue. Doesn't show up to units without sonar while it can still fire at them with it's main cannons resulting in an invisible megalith that you need to groundfire based on where the shots are coming from.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 03 May 2016, 11:10

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T11:07:08+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
Or just say that unit is indeed in water only when all of it weapons except torpedo weapons can't shoot xD

That actually could help. We'll end up in same situation but reversed where you cant detect a not fully submerged unit with sonars, only difference is that all units in game have vision on surface and will be able to see not submerged units on visual contact. There still will be cancer left with those units not showing up on your sonar if they are walking on shallow water like now they are not shown on radar (and on visual contact unless you bring units with underwater vision).

Also another solution would be to give most non-naval/amphibious units underwater vision, but that's messing with game mechanics too much already if you ask me.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 03 May 2016, 11:07

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T10:17:22+02:00

From what I understand it is all about knowing if unit has it hitbox abowe water or not. We could "cheat" and ask other data instead, like how does weapon knows that it is got wet??? Or just say that unit is indeed in water only when all of it weapons except torpedo weapons can't shoot xD

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 03 May 2016, 10:17

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T09:30:48+02:00

Swol wrote:
Maybe we could introduce a sonar platform unit, maybe t1,t2 and t3 varieties? rather than change the game engine or give all units sonar? Would be a pain in the ass to build every game but you will have the added bonus of spotting those nuke subs that are so common on canis (except cybran ones of course)

we have sonar already

all in t1, t2 and mobile t3

sera t2 is huge range but no t3

Statistics: Posted by biass — 03 May 2016, 09:30

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T09:25:37+02:00

Maybe we could introduce a sonar platform unit, maybe t1,t2 and t3 varieties? rather than change the game engine or give all units sonar? Would be a pain in the ass to build every game but you will have the added bonus of spotting those nuke subs that are so common on canis (except cybran ones of course)

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 03 May 2016, 09:25

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T09:08:30+02:00

iirc we would need to change engine to fix this correctly, cause engine doesnt really handle units in multiple layers. So not much we can do right now

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 03 May 2016, 09:08

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T02:02:55+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
angus000 wrote:This made me remember that in Supreme Vanilla you could attack a GC while it walked on the sea bed, because it was way too tall. This was a good thing because with 240.000 hp it was impossible to kill anyway

you can do same in FA, and afaik in both cases you will need sonar...

problem seems to be pretty fundamental, so it might be hard to fix, but i hope someone will make it happen

Give all land units sonar? Except t1 because t1 sub conflict

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 03 May 2016, 02:02

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T01:19:56+02:00

angus000 wrote:
This made me remember that in Supreme Vanilla you could attack a GC while it walked on the sea bed, because it was way too tall. This was a good thing because with 240.000 hp it was impossible to kill anyway

you can do same in FA, and afaik in both cases you will need sonar...

problem seems to be pretty fundamental, so it might be hard to fix, but i hope someone will make it happen

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 03 May 2016, 01:19

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T00:58:55+02:00

This made me remember that in Supreme Vanilla you could attack a GC while it walked on the sea bed, because it was way too tall. This was a good thing because with 240.000 hp it was impossible to kill anyway

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 03 May 2016, 00:58

Re: Please explain how this is not total nonsense

2016-05-03T00:27:58+02:00

how a units intel works depends on what layer its standing on. as such, as long as a chicken is standing on the underwater (seabed in this case) layer, its treated as being underwater. the game doesnt really know how deep in it is.
there is some funny business involved because the units weapons are not disabled underwater. its easy to disable them, but its not a perfect solution, instead we get the chicken not being able to shoot back. not ideal, since we get cancer on both sides instead of none.

what we could do instead is make an exception for the chicken and make it visible to radar / normalvision at all times even when underwater. this would be a correct solution, but i dont know how to do that off the top of my head.

interestingly, this isnt the first time we ran into this problem. at some point the gc had its primary target bone changed to its face so when its in water its feet dont get shot at, absorbing all the bullets on the way.

so how exactly do we fix this?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i put it on my extremely long todo list but i dont see how this could be done, without messing up a bunch of things.

hope that you learned something at least

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 03 May 2016, 00:27