Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T16:10:48+02:00

The consensus here is pretty clear, that this is not an exploit and it will not be changed. The thread is now locked.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 10 Apr 2016, 16:10

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T14:38:17+02:00

speed2 wrote:
What would you ban next time? Engie quickly starting wall to block incoming fire from LAB? Saving engie for cost of 1mass clearly abuse as well

engy making a wall is counterable just by making a move command to a lab, it is not that big of a deal, but ofc it can make difference...
only way to counter drops that are destroyed when land on started buildings is to not drop near any engyneers witch is bit too much, and that is one of the reasons why people drop your base anyway...
same with TML being blocked, player who launched TML has no way to avoid that TML being blocked...

i can't really say much

maybe make missile take damage that is equal to amount of HP of that building/unit/wreck/projectile (no idea about lasers) that it hit/collided
and if missile has some HP left it will just continue flying, but with less hp, it will be easyer to stop for TMD, that way it will be just a "micro" that you can make to help your TMD kill missile, so for example give missile 200-400 hp and TMD 100-200 damage.
that way at least you can't use those tall fragile buildings to stop TML, need some tought/big ones
same idea should be definately applyed to nuke/antinuke so they don't get killed by AA or plane or anthing, or at least avoid getting killed by fast planes to prevent elevation abus[e] that makes nuke completely ineffective

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 10 Apr 2016, 14:38

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T13:31:19+02:00

Blackster wrote:
@ SC-Account
I am sorry, you write so much nonsense, its mind-boggling. I find it merely impossible to have a decent exchange of thoughts with you. Let's just leave it at that.

I am not trying to exchange thoughts with you, I am trying to help you to get over your complexes. If I managed to exchange thoughts with you that would only lead to your brain exploding and my brain imploding - not a desirable result from my point of view

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 10 Apr 2016, 13:31

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T13:27:03+02:00

@ SC-Account
I am sorry, you write so much nonsense, its mind-boggling. I find it merely impossible to have a decent exchange of thoughts with you. Let's just leave it at that.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 10 Apr 2016, 13:27

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T13:14:11+02:00

Blackster wrote:
@ speed2
How often does something need to occur in order to be challenged? How often do we see Yolos? In < 3 % of all games? Then lets say in < 1 % of all game the Yolo was blocked with a sat - still it was deemed undesirable. Hence, the quantity of an instance occuring should be irrelevant. I do not understand why you stick to this flawed argument.

@ SC-Account
Your comment is just as imature as basically any comment in any game Gyle casted with you (check youtube comments on you for a hilarious time).
Yes, you got me, my aim is to increase my rating by banning things. Did you know: when Yolo block was removed, my rating went up by 300 points! Amazing. Sadly, you now finally exposed my real intention
Let's take someone with a bad economy while being TMLed. Good luck getting up a TMD quickly. Even when you are stalling badly, you could get a 1 HP shield up. I assume that is fair?

I won't lose any sleep if things remain the way they are, but the arguments provided in favor of keeping things the same are imo very poor to non-existent - especially that putting this action on a list would be very easy, no coding involved.

Yes, youtube comments, this is where maturity comes from Also notice the "SC-Account is my hero" ones XD. Anyway, I for once agree with you - youtube comments are a great source of amusement, even though half of the negative ones about me are probably written by you

Anyway, what exactly has that to do with people trying to change the game to fit their playstyle, it is something I see a lot within players that are stuck on a rating level, they are not satisfied with. They claim they are on that level cause of buguse, exploits, UI mods, but it is quite obviously scapegoating and somehow this community really gives to much attention to such frustration driven claims.. which is just unhealthy.

Decisions about balance and game mechanics should be evidence based, not based on some players e-penis deficits and inferiority complexes - just my opinion.

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 10 Apr 2016, 13:14

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T10:49:00+02:00

You know the missile needs to explode to deal damage. And it sees the shield hitbox and hits it, doesn't know if it's 1 HP just started or 1HP from being finnished.
I don't really think we should make missiles ignore hitboxes or making missiles dealing damage without exploding.

I asked several 1800+ players: why do you do that (lower ranked don't do such things, they simply don't know them). Everyone (!) answered: ya, dunno, its kinda weird, but, oh well, they all do it.

Just because setons abusers told you that... not much to add here.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 10 Apr 2016, 10:49

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T10:41:55+02:00

speed2 wrote:
It's nothing game breaking at all. As Washy pointed out projectiles should colide with unfinished building and should destroy them.

A bulletproof vest will slow down a bullet. The bullet will still cause damage tho.
The current TML situation is as when you get shot at, you put up a piece of paper in front of you which will protect you entirely. How this is desirable is beyond me. But whatever. Frankly, when the I noticed the Yolo thing, I asked several 1800+ players: why do you do that (lower ranked don't do such things, they simply don't know them). Everyone (!) answered: ya, dunno, its kinda weird, but, oh well, they all do it.
I brought it up on the fourm, shortly after it was removed. Seemed a bit like a bubble. But ok, let's keep TML block then, whatever.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 10 Apr 2016, 10:41

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T10:18:44+02:00

Cause some people here are arguing about it like it would be ruining their every second game they play.

It's nothing game breaking at all. As Washy pointed out projectiles should colide with unfinished building and should destroy them.

I have no clue how anyone can compare it to nuke/sat where satellite was set as indestructable and no one expected it to be hit by nuke. Don't tell me you didn't see what happened when that occured... Few second pause before the game found that what should happen and then the nuke animation got played on the satellite and satellite was still smiling from the sky. Obviously the satellite should be at least killed by that.

Drops/factories under them... That's like saying that unit should get destroyed if it walks over enemy factory? Really, it's clearly bug to me. I don't see any reason why those units should explode and not just land on the building and walk away.

What would you ban next time? Engie quickly starting wall to block incoming fire from LAB? Saving engie for cost of 1mass clearly abuse as well

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 10 Apr 2016, 10:18

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T08:56:12+02:00

@ speed2
How often does something need to occur in order to be challenged? How often do we see Yolos? In < 3 % of all games? Then lets say in < 1 % of all game the Yolo was blocked with a sat - still it was deemed undesirable. Hence, the quantity of an instance occuring should be irrelevant. I do not understand why you stick to this flawed argument.

@ SC-Account
Your comment is just as imature as basically any comment in any game Gyle casted with you (check youtube comments on you for a hilarious time).
Yes, you got me, my aim is to increase my rating by banning things. Did you know: when Yolo block was removed, my rating went up by 300 points! Amazing. Sadly, you now finally exposed my real intention
Let's take someone with a bad economy while being TMLed. Good luck getting up a TMD quickly. Even when you are stalling badly, you could get a 1 HP shield up. I assume that is fair?

I won't lose any sleep if things remain the way they are, but the arguments provided in favor of keeping things the same are imo very poor to non-existent - especially that putting this action on a list would be very easy, no coding involved.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 10 Apr 2016, 08:56

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-10T02:58:19+02:00

-Axiom- wrote:
Why is blocking a missile different from blocking a transport?

"Well to start with, it will explode all of the units in the transport. If all it did was redirect the transport someplace else I don't think it would be on the ban list."

Yes of course, but why is one an exploit and the other isn't?

It seems like they both should be treated the same way either they are an exploit or they are not.

If for instance you have a low health ACU and someone tries to tml it, you block it with a unfinished building, you are still in the game.
That exploit just saved your butt.

The point is that blocking a transport is very easy to do and you can kill a dropping ACU or other important stuff with it, now of course that can be denied by not dropping inside of engy range, but well.. surely a questionable game mechanic.
When it comes to blocking TML by starting a new structure the problem is, as far as I am aware of, simply non existent. If it works it is not a gamechanger, it only works if you build the shield at the exactly correct angle and you need to at least have a T2 engy there.. which could also build a TMD. Also TML is OP anyway.

When it comes to realism, both is questionable, but there are really bigger problems when it comes to realism. At least it is consistent with the general collision philosophy.

Banning everything that requires a certain level of skill to pull of wont suddenly make you a good player, Blackster

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 10 Apr 2016, 02:58

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-09T22:50:43+02:00

Yeah do all that and you'll find out that you can really save a mex in one of the 50 cases when you're getting TML'd. I know that since this isn't the first time I tried to use it. For last few months playing it worked 2 times so far.

Such abus[e], much wow, too stronk

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 09 Apr 2016, 22:50

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-09T22:46:13+02:00

CodingSquirrel wrote:
Blackster wrote:That's not for me to decide - there is a balance team for such issues since neither do I know what could be implemented/changed nor could I put it in place. I am merely trying to get pros and cons for the recent status and imo so far I don't see a whole lot on the pro side of the current situation.
If it can't be changed alltogether and/or the pros outhweigh the cons, ok, then so be it.

EDIT:
An option could be the TML flies through unfinished buildings (if possible). Seems the most natural solution in such a case.

Fair enough. I asked though because something like the example you gave would be worse than what we have, IMO. Because then it would kill the ability to destroy an unfinished building with TML. For example, using TML against an unfinished Paragon.

There are legitimate reasons to TML unfinished structures.

How would it kill the ability to destroy an unfinished building? I thought the tml will fly through the building, connect with the ground and the AOE damage will be applied to the building?

I hate tml, and imho if you guys want to keep it that way, fine. I guess I will go for 20hp t2 shields with ACU way more often. Or build shields to denfend my mexes... It's not really difficult to find out which mex it does fly to and since most times, there is already a engy near there trying to build a tmd, I guess I will "build" a shield first. But logic dictates otherwise especially with that transporter exploit, getting the units to explode is imho the same as getting the tml to explode. Both will explode even though there really is nothing there.

Statistics: Posted by Manfet — 09 Apr 2016, 22:46

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-09T21:51:31+02:00

maybe we could make some fix for it... for example make model appear or rise from ground only at 15% completion of building (or instead make it not collidable with missiles while it is in 0%-15% completion state), so trick would be much harder to make unless you use factory (yea you can do it with factory too, does not has to be shield) or t1 radar or any cheap building... also units should still path around it while it is at 0%-15% state...
or speed up TML missile but also make it come at taget from top to bottom, witch is ofc pretty lame and changes TMD effectivness and ability to dodge missile is increased.

game mechanics are cool, but that means any engy can almost instantly place a single use forcefield in any area that will collide with enemy projectile.
people use that to block shots from labs to make engy survive... witch is ok since it is not very effective, and requres alot of attansion and just not always possible to do
While blocking TML with shield is pretty easy. ACU tml argument is not very related imho, it is hard to defend against it also cause place where TML is launched from is changing. also you have to many targets to protect, while in some teamgames it is not always the case

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 09 Apr 2016, 21:51

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-09T21:31:33+02:00

Blackster wrote:
briang wrote:He has explained it. You just can't seem to follow him for some reason.

I opened this thread looking for a serious, non-aggressive discussion. So far, you have provided annoying one-liners only. I ask you as kindly as possible to refrain from posting this way. Add to the discussion (e.g. by providing arguments) without aggravating, please. Thank you.

I had nothing to add to what had been said other than that Jagged was correct, so that's what I said. If you find it abrasive oh well.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 09 Apr 2016, 21:31

Re: Stop TML with unfinished shield - exploit?

2016-04-09T20:31:25+02:00

briang wrote:
He has explained it. You just can't seem to follow him for some reason.

I opened this thread looking for a serious, non-aggressive discussion. So far, you have provided annoying one-liners only. I ask you as kindly as possible to refrain from posting this way. Add to the discussion (e.g. by providing arguments) without aggravating, please. Thank you.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 09 Apr 2016, 20:31