Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-29T00:11:37+02:00

tl:dr

Some people don't like UI mods that do stuff for you.

Others are fine with it.

Nothing's changing about the current situation; sorry, move on.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 29 Mar 2016, 00:11

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-29T00:08:28+02:00

briang wrote:
@Ani

I'm not really sure what you're on about when you say "rule breakers." There isn't any policy right now that suggests bans for people using publicly available UI mods and there won't ever be xD.

Affirmative if I have any say in this. It's not worth developer time / effort to make it 'hard' to modify the game code.

It's also not worth moderator time having to review games for signs of automation mods used, the primary such mod we know how to detect is eco manager. Say we ban ecomanager, someone could easily tune it to not throttle as efficiently in order to avoid detection. This is a futile effort.

We need to put our focus where it matters, and this heftily debated topic is really not such a thing. Please get this thread closed.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 29 Mar 2016, 00:08

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-29T00:04:23+02:00

Rule breakers, I'm proposing we allow a host option to allow/deny certain controversial mods. Tatsu points out it could be hacked so I say it could be banned. But I mean only after host option is created.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 29 Mar 2016, 00:04

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T23:36:35+02:00

@Tatsu
Mods simply don't drive people away. Sure, a lot of noobs complain about how unfair they are and that they lose because the other team has them (half the time their opponents don't even have the damn mods). I regard it as highly unintelligent to complain about someone using a publicly available resource. It is like showing up to a gunfight with a flint-lock pistol against an opponent with a semi-automatic pistol when you had access to a semi-automatic and you passed it up. And that is given that they know how to use it! If we're using that analogy, the way players use ecomanager in your rating range would be tantamount to not knowing how to turn the safety off of your pistol. There are no people in your rating range who use mods like ecomanager properly and I would bet my soul on that.

@Ani

I'm not really sure what you're on about when you say "rule breakers." There isn't any policy right now that suggests bans for people using publicly available UI mods and there won't ever be xD.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 28 Mar 2016, 23:36

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T23:25:57+02:00

Hi tatsu, your tone sucks. It's clear. We just need to make it hard then we can ban rule breakers. Yes it may take a year.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 28 Mar 2016, 23:25

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T23:14:41+02:00

keyser wrote:
So what do you advice tatsu ?
To integrate all ui mods, so every one every one is on the same step ?

That's pretty much what hotbuild keys are, right?

I mean, I'm looking at some mods that control LOD better so people can see reclaim from afar. Why has the FAF mod not integrated options like that? That makes zoomed-out gameplay so much easier it's not even funny.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 28 Mar 2016, 23:14

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T23:04:06+02:00

So what do you advice tatsu ?
To integrate all ui mods, so every one every one is on the same step ?

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 28 Mar 2016, 23:04

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T21:03:31+02:00

theeggroll wrote:
I've only read what Keyser said, but the whole " you want to keep up with the latest ui mods to improve" or whatever makes this sound like a blizzard game, in all blizzard games you find the most op thing , everyone uses it, it gets nerfed and something else is found to be op then everyone uses that etc. That's stupid. As f***.

I agree with that but again as all pro-mods have said : it really wouldn't be the case if all these were made vanilla faf.

The strongest contention I have with mods if any is that the cleavage at a new player level (and yes there re new players that are informed about mods) between players who are informed about mods and use them and players who aren't and don't is so great that it drives new players away.

and new players are the building blocks of this community. without them faf is dead and they are all we should care about.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 28 Mar 2016, 21:03

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T20:51:50+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
I think automatic mods like eco manager should be toggleable... so that the host gets to choose if they are allowed or not.

And here we get an example of someone who lives in happy-go-lucky land.

this is not possible.

as I said I my first post even if there was code that could identify one such mod then do yadda yadda whatever you could write code that is the mod in question but isn't a mod and that makes it absolutely undetectable to anything ever.

code is always a story of if you can do one thing on one side you ca do the opposite on the other and mods that subtract clickety clickety started with high ground so they'll never ever be counter-able because they'll always have the potential to get back one step ahead.

that's putting aside the fact that it may take a year/just be completely impossible for the FAF community to put together something that could detect UI mods since we don't have the source code.

there. is it clear?

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 28 Mar 2016, 20:51

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T19:52:38+02:00

Morax wrote:
Nah, you're just making it that way because you can't admit you're too lazy to learn the game proper

I'm too lazy to do my mass storages one by one and use templates for that. I think that was a hudge improvement of FA over SupCom.

Appart from EcoManager, which I think will be controversial to the end, what other UI mod doesn't fall in the same category as build templates, i.e, making things less of a bore. (and yes, someone in SC who was more efficient at building fast in the heat of battle had an avantage over someone who didn't have the "skill" of doing all at the same time, advantage that was lost with build templates, but I really don't see that as a problem, the faster player will alwayd find something else to focus on with the time freed by a mod)

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 28 Mar 2016, 19:52

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T18:00:21+02:00

Alright we can settle that on our own.

Anyways back on topic enjoy your ui mods, people.

I hope you take comfort in your dreaming

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 28 Mar 2016, 18:00

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T17:47:13+02:00

I can and do play with and without ecomanager and I've beaten you with it on and off. One of us is 1800 and one of us is buck ass average. Don't tell me I don't know how to play the game.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 28 Mar 2016, 17:47

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T17:33:33+02:00

Nah, you're just making it that way because you can't admit you're too lazy to learn the game proper

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 28 Mar 2016, 17:33

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T16:51:15+02:00

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 28 Mar 2016, 16:51

Re: Unfair Advantage of Scripts/Mods/Plugins/Etc

2016-03-28T16:16:00+02:00

The way you describe mods "doing something for you" makes it seem as if you think ecomod balances your records for you. IDK hoe many times I will have to refute that thinking on these forums XD.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 28 Mar 2016, 16:16