Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-26T20:03:43+02:00

Another tip is to shift-G order when you attack with several beetles then they will move straight at the target instead of trying some kind of formation crap first

Statistics: Posted by Crotalus — 26 Jan 2016, 20:03

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-26T19:20:24+02:00

Obvious bug / glitch (units pointing at the target location will accelerate while in air, thus having full speed when landing on the ground). Easily fixed but as usual the problem is that it would affect status quo ("balance"). To make it acceptable to current exploiters I guess reducing turn radius of beetles or even make them able to turn on the spot will be compensation enough?

Statistics: Posted by Crotalus — 26 Jan 2016, 19:20

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-26T17:07:45+02:00

But banning the use of this bug would also ban the smartest way of beetlesniping. Preissued attack command is WAY more efficient than waiting for the beetles to scurry out of the transport, spread out, order attack, wait for them to spread out around the target and only then converge on it and explode.

Also I have a feeling this has something to do with the beetle attack target pathfinding, if you do this with tanks they just drop off and start shooting immediately when in range, just like if they were never in the transport. If you order a group of beetles to attack a target they move next to it, spreading out as they go and only after they've reached a certain range do they approach it directly to explode. Highly annoying and makes their usage without transports unnecessarily difficult but also kind of reminiscent about their preissued attack order transport snipe behaviour. I'd hazard a quess that they skip the "approach target" part and skip straight to the close to explode part if dropped in range.

Anyways, after they patched the instant kill from transport overhead meant you had to land further away, leaving time for the enemy to build a factory under them, which meant they had to land even further away to escape build radius. Then again, now we are banned from building factories under them so you can drop right next to acu again, sometimes even in explosion range so even if you kill the beetles you will still die. When landing close enough even if you want to overcharge them you need to manipulate the acu target it's gun in that direction, either by ground firing or moving and it's excessively difficult to do, compared to before where the transport was three times further away. And the transport can fly over the commander faster than the commander can turn if close enough.
It does still require local air superiority and absence of t2 AA on the ground against a t2 drop so I don't feel it's too strong but it should be noted that the ban of building a factory under a transport buffed beetle drops.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 26 Jan 2016, 17:07

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T19:56:33+02:00

speed2 wrote:
You know so little, me and Tokyto were those suggesting that beetles should take two spots in the transport as other T2 unit.

I don't see how my statement touches upon the issue of how many spot beetles take on a transport. Read again please, you are way off here. Also, I didn't include all higher ranked players. No idea what your comment is all about really.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 24 Jan 2016, 19:56

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T17:48:48+02:00

Thanks for the responses.

I won't deny that it will probably take some time to get this "gliding"/"warping" behavior of Beetles patched. I suspect that no one will take the time to patch this little detail in the near future. Hence, I support my request to add this method to the ban list for two reasons:

1. It is an unintended behavior of the unit.
2. There is a high chance that no one will invest time into patching this behavior in the near future. Even with the new patch, this behavior will still continue to exist and only god can tell if someone patches it.

Statistics: Posted by HZH — 24 Jan 2016, 17:48

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T12:27:30+02:00

speed2 wrote:
Blackster wrote:
HZH wrote:Don't know if it's a good thing that high-ranked players even make tutorials of how to abuse bugs, definitely a great example and inspiration for lower-ranked players.

Imo its definitely not a good idea and I for one am glad the balance team in general uses more reason than plenty of higher ranked players. If it was for those guys, we still could block the Yolo with a satelite. Sometimes I can't comprehend why they enjoy circle jerking so much.

You know so little, me and Tokyto were those suggesting that beetles should take two spots in the transport as other T2 unit.

will be beetle snipe still possible? I quess new tutorial will be needed

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 24 Jan 2016, 12:27

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T11:14:45+02:00

speed2 wrote:
Blackster wrote:
HZH wrote:Don't know if it's a good thing that high-ranked players even make tutorials of how to abuse bugs, definitely a great example and inspiration for lower-ranked players.

Imo its definitely not a good idea and I for one am glad the balance team in general uses more reason than plenty of higher ranked players. If it was for those guys, we still could block the Yolo with a satelite. Sometimes I can't comprehend why they enjoy circle jerking so much.

You know so little, me and Tokyto were those suggesting that beetles should take two spots in the transport as other T2 unit.

Happening next patch.

About the beaming, until the moderators decide it's a banned exploit (and banning things should be only done if absolutely necessary imo, because many people just play and don't read rules or anything and end up abusing it and getting banned unintentionally), if the tutorial is about explaining how to use a feature, or how to abuse a bug is entirely matter of opinion.

From a balance perspective i want this issue fixed, but until there is someone who can make it work, we have to live with it.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 24 Jan 2016, 11:14

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T11:08:18+02:00

Blackster wrote:
HZH wrote:Don't know if it's a good thing that high-ranked players even make tutorials of how to abuse bugs, definitely a great example and inspiration for lower-ranked players.

Imo its definitely not a good idea and I for one am glad the balance team in general uses more reason than plenty of higher ranked players. If it was for those guys, we still could block the Yolo with a satelite. Sometimes I can't comprehend why they enjoy circle jerking so much.

You know so little, me and Tokyto were those suggesting that beetles should take two spots in the transport as other T2 unit.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 24 Jan 2016, 11:08

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T10:50:39+02:00

HZH wrote:
Don't know if it's a good thing that high-ranked players even make tutorials of how to abuse bugs, definitely a great example and inspiration for lower-ranked players.

Imo its definitely not a good idea and I for one am glad the balance team in general uses more reason than plenty of higher ranked players. If it was for those guys, we still could block the Yolo with a satelite. Sometimes I can't comprehend why they enjoy circle jerking so much.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 24 Jan 2016, 10:50

Are beetles bugs?

2016-01-24T09:04:57+02:00

I guess I'd be one of the inspired lower-ranked players. I have a lot of fun doing beetle snipes. A fair portion of my kills are from this tactic. Honestly, I get a bit of a rush coordinating my beetle load and my scout's flyby. I'm always surprised no one else at my level does it: no one has attempted beetles on me in my ~1000 games.

leaving even the players with high APM, overcharge available, and having the ACU heading towards the right direction helpless.

To me, this is essential to the ideal function of a snipe. It exploits not a lack of attentiveness or apm in the preceding second, but a lack of preparation, intel, and positioning in the preceding minute. If my air is distracted, my flak misplaced, and my opponent unscouted, he has a specific opportunity to capitalize. Noticing the drop three seconds before it lands should not be enough to save me. Building an energy storage should not make me snipe-proof. It's not a subtle rebalance you're suggesting: if beetles were delivered properly packed for easy overcharging, it's possible beetle drops wouldn't be used at all.

Calling the scatter an exploit goes a little far imo, especially if other high-speed, high-acceleration units (labs) do the same thing. Beetles move quickly and erratically by design. In my view, this is a niche but creative use of the queuing system.

Statistics: Posted by Luminareo — 24 Jan 2016, 09:04

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T02:38:26+02:00

Don't know if it's a good thing that high-ranked players even make tutorials of how to abuse bugs, definitely a great example and inspiration for lower-ranked players.

Statistics: Posted by HZH — 24 Jan 2016, 02:38

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T02:11:02+02:00

I think you have a very big world to discover yet if you really think only me and Tokyto use beetles this way. Over 1000 ppl got inspired by his tutorial where he explained it in detail one year ago

object

This way of sniping ACU is here since Intergalactis Colosseum, hi LuXy

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 24 Jan 2016, 02:11

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T02:06:25+02:00

Admittedly, this method is not too commonly used, albeit there exist 2 players who use it excessively without shame in high-rating games). However, this way of purposely bugging the Beetles to "warp"/"glide"/"glitch" which is not supposed to work should have no space in competitive teamgames.

An easy alternative is to group the Beetles before loading them into the transport and immediately order the group to attack, when the transport lands.

Statistics: Posted by HZH — 24 Jan 2016, 02:06

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-24T00:38:14+02:00

It's not that they don't touch hte ground.
It's that they seem to magically warp about, and often in different directions, which makes them really annoying to deal with.

That said though, I still don't feel they're much of a problem. They're much less common than being mercied, and the deal is the same.
Scout, and build some flak....

Now, what i do with beetles on the otherhan...

Statistics: Posted by Sovietpride — 24 Jan 2016, 00:38

Re: Bug: Beetles with attack command before loaded in transp

2016-01-23T23:11:20+02:00

Beetles exploding before the touch the ground is a bug, and one I tried to fix in the past. It's tricky. I fully support adding this to the banlist until I can find a way to make the stupid thing work properly.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 23 Jan 2016, 23:11