Forged Alliance Forever

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2015-10-12T11:57:26+02:00

Any more maps as of late?

Statistics: Posted by spice — 12 Oct 2015, 11:57

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-30T09:56:57+02:00

My version of 'Thermopylae TeamPlayAI' was removed from the Vault by FAF management.
It was the only Thermo map that had no errors, prevented players using the hill tops and produced a very strong AI build and attack.
The map had Restrictions: No Air, LRCs, nuke, sat, tele, eye, paragon ...this is why it was removed, because the script prevented ranked play.

I try to avoid the boring Thermo experience by making maps with many paths. The aim for me is to set markers that cause the AI to use all paths not just the main path.

The original 'Gap of Rhonda TeamPlay' map had an intentional no-build area at the center choke point due to uneven ground.
A little prick called McGeifer removed my original map from the Vault by editing my map and using the same name with a different version number. He has made this into another Thermo by leveling the ground at the gap, allowing shielded defenses.
Anyway some people, like you, will probably love his change.
So give 'Gap of Rhonda TeamPlay' a try.

Good Luck
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 30 Apr 2014, 09:56

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-29T12:24:07+02:00

Hi,
a few weeks ago I installed FAF and I played so far only survival games with 5th_dimension map and one single human player.
I just read this post and "Thermopylae v4 TeamPlayAI" looks like an interesting map, but I didn't find it in the vault, there is only a generic Thermopylae map without AI markers.
Are there any other single choke point maps with good AI markers?

Thank you so much for your patience!

Statistics: Posted by hypercubeborg — 29 Apr 2014, 12:24

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-25T07:42:33+02:00

Indeed, I wasn't familiar with this setting until you mentioned it, and the share units until death / full share setting was the one that sounded similar enough to come to mind. Once I looked at the settings, however, it was easy enough to find both settings and what they did. (and the share units until death / full share setting is essentially irrelevant due to Annihilation victory conditions) The resource sharing option is one that I imagine all players have set to on and never touched again, as it's virtually always beneficial - though come to think of it, I'm not sure if it is toggled on by default.

We should test it with and without the setting to see the results.

EDIT: check out replay UID 2125151 in the vault if you have a chance.

Statistics: Posted by Adraius — 25 Apr 2014, 07:42

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-25T04:26:26+02:00

You raise an important talking point...
The AIs need to share their resources on most maps so that they do not waste mass. Usually one AI has an excess between 3mins and 10mins game time.

Now I may be wrong in thinking that just allying the AI does not cause them to share, and that its only when the human team share that the AIs will share.

I think I read this on Sorian's GpG post and have done it ever since. We could test it out to be sure. The in-game setting is tricky to set because the visual indication is ambiguous, as its hard to tell whether you are in 'share' or 'none share' mode. On top of that there has been a new addition to the lobby options that allows 'share units on death' that confuses the issue further.

In any case I thought it would be normal for human team members to share resources to ensure you partner does not have an energy stall.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 25 Apr 2014, 04:26

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-23T23:25:02+02:00

I have a TeamPlay lobby up and will be looking for players for the next couple hours.

While I'm here, I have a question: what does this setting do? I thought in-game settings only changed things for you, not for the AI... why require that the humans share resources? (assuming that's what it does, I'm not familiar with this setting)

AwarE wrote:
Share resources[in game setting] as this is a requiement for TeamPlay_AI.

Statistics: Posted by Adraius — 23 Apr 2014, 23:25

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-17T05:54:40+02:00

Welcome back Adraius ...always good to see an old friend.
Thanks again for your testing help in the past with maps like Agenda21.

Ze_Pilot has introduced Co-Op missions since you were last here. These missions are awesome with 1000's of man-hours of scripting. Some missions are very difficult to even get a base established ...see FA Campaign Missions 2 and 4. I would like to try these missions with you.

These new Challenge Series TeamPlay_AI maps are getting harder to beat ...although I agree that there is no stress in Co-Op compared to ladder games.
Intense fun gameplay sharing with a friend, in a relaxed style is the essence of Co-Op. It is not a blood sport like Ladder.

Let me be poetic and say...
When a Human virtual life is lost in Co-Op that life is mourned not scorned.
On the Ladder that life lost is gloated over for profit and the winners scoff at it.

There are replays showing very good teams now playing TeamPlay_AI using the correct settings.

Unfortunatly there are still many games that are using poor setings like:-
- starting in the wrong positions
- selecting AI of the wrong faction for the map terain
- setting AIx multiplier too high
- not using one of Sorian's AI
- setting 500 or less units
- restricting Naval on a water map
- restricting experimentals
- use mods that give a major advantage to the Human
- not setting 'Annihilation' mode
- adding too many AI
- not allying the AIs
- AIs not shareing resources
the list goes on...
If only I had a way to lock in these setting with the map script it would save confusion and improve the challange. One of the settings, that is 'Annihilation' mode needs to be changed back to 'Assination' mode at game end to allow ranked play. That and other problems experienced during testing setup scripts has caused me to try to show and tell more people the best setup.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 17 Apr 2014, 05:54

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-16T03:36:00+02:00

Oh cool, a bunch of AwarE map challenges? I can't resist a challenge.

P.S. hey AwarE, been awhile! I've come back to FAF after a good while away, and have been mostly trying out ladder for the first time. Fighting the AI is a million times less stressful though lol, I'll think I'll give these a try soon.

P.S. I'll need some partners, if anyone reading this wants to play with me shoot me a PM

Statistics: Posted by Adraius — 16 Apr 2014, 03:36

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-04-16T02:23:59+02:00

AIx Challenge Series Teamplay_AI maps in FAF Vault :-

Comet Citadel TeamPlayAI
Agenda21 TeamPlayAI
Aeon AfterWorld GW
Tartus TeamPlayAI
Turmoil TeamPlay_AI
Grit TeamPlay_AI
Pharaoh TeamPlay_AI
Goblin Gate TeamPlay_AI
Fort Rhiza TeamPlay_AI
Admirals TeamPlay_AI
Mount_lakes TeamPlay_AI
Stones TeamPlay_AI
X Mark TeamPlay_AI
TKP_Team TeamPlay_AI

Latest Non Challenge Series but still good AI maps:-

Donner TeamPlay_AI
Titan TeamPlay_AI
These two are also balanced for Human verses Human play with NO Restrictions.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 16 Apr 2014, 02:23

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2014-03-16T06:25:59+02:00

AIx Challenge Series

AIx Challenge Series
Please understand that 'AIx Challenge Series TeamPlay_AI' maps are not balanced for Human verses Human competition such as Ladder or ranked games. They could be used in GW to give the defending faction's team a 'Home Planet' advantage ...like extra resources and protected build areas. These maps are using a combination of landform and FA markers to create a fast, smart and strong AI build. Only the very best players will be able to achieve a true [see rule] TeamPlay_AI 'Allied Victory' in their 1st attempt on Challenge Series maps. By not giving up and playing the map again using correct settings the AI will do the same as before but your performance will improve greatly, mainly because you know whats coming. You will find a way to defeat the AI if you persevere.

Settings

AIx should start according to each map's description. FA markers are set to give the AIx attack moves even when Omni is off and work best in only one direction.
Team the AIx and team yourselves.
Share resources[in game setting] as this is a requiement for TeamPlay_AI.
The AIx multiplier should be set anywhere from 1.1 - 1.4 depending on your skillz.

Set Annihilation mode ...but Remember this TeamPlay_AI rule:-
If your commy dies or your partner dies or leaves its a LOSS,
however, the AI commy can die and the game continues.
You must kill all AI units for a WIN. -- 'Allied Victory'

Pre-built units - OFF - pre-built units destroys the AI build order.
No 2x resources - this halves the AI strength.
Civilians - None - civilians just get in the way.
No-Rush - OFF - this did cripple the AI, but on my latest maps setting no-rush will not help you.
Fog of War should be On.
Set 1000 units - any less will weaken the AI. Use 750 if your box is a dog.
Game speed normal - game speed will not drop below 0 if all humans have quad core CPU@3GHz+
Allow at least 6 expansions for both land and naval.
The setting of AIx Omni is up to you ...if it is On the AIx will play strong, attack earlier and stealthing your base will not work. When it is Off the AI is weaker and may not attack until you send ground units to attack its base. Stealth still does not work as it should basically because the AI cheats.[It seems to know where your commy and shields are and will snipe you with TML even when under stealth.]

AI Selection

I will recomend the best AI type in the description of each map.
The AIx Sorian Turtle AI will provide the fastest game and is the strongest AI Sorian has made. I believe the Sorian Turtle AI is the allround best AI ever. It will build the best defense and provide the smartest attack for Land, Air and Sea on a broad range of map types.
The AIx Sorian Adaptive AI is ok when Air is not restricted and there is a land-link between your base and the AI base. This AI is very poor at naval and will slow your game when there is no land-link. If you like shooting down a lot of transports that waste the AI resources you will love the Adaptive AI. It is a jack of all trades and a master of none.
The AIx Sorian Air AI is good as long as Air is not restricted and Naval is not needed, especially if there is no land-link. Expect an early Air experimental.
The AIx Sorian Water AI is very good when Naval is needed and there is no land-link. It will build Land and Air experimentals, not Naval.

Faction

Aeon and Seraphim are the best allround factions for AI battles because they both have strong land experimentals and also good Air experimentals. The main reason their land experimentals are preferred is their small footprint to negotiate narrow passageways. The UEF Fatboy and Cybran Mega get stuck too often. On open maps Cybran are good.

Mods

Most mods will make the AIx much weaker mainly because the AI are not programmed to use the mods new unit IDs. The AI simply will not build the best units available. FAF will give the best performance without any mods.

Restrictions

I know players hate restrictions of any sort ...give me a break ... I am trying to create the ultimate AI experience, using an AI that actually builds the units it sends to the battle. If you attack the AIs resource income, mexs or power, it will affect its ability to build units. This is just like a normal game as distinct from Survival AI matches where the AI gets units for no cost.
These restriction apply to 10x10 maps only.
No T3 Arty -- Since Pilot nerfed shields the AI is useless at defending against cheap Arty.
No LRC -- Long Rang Cannons penetrate the AI even easier than Arty.
No Sat -- Satellite are not handled well by the AI and at the same time are now OP in human hands.
No Eye -- Removed for faction balance and because the AI can't use.[Aeon]
No Perim -- Removed for faction balance and because the AI can't use.[Cybran]
No Para -- The Paragon is a bomb right in the AI main base producing resources that are not needed by the AI. The AI already has a problem with chain reactions of energy storage explosions without adding a nuke blast.
Extra Restrictions that Players set like 'No Experimentals' will weaken the AI and cause it to waste a lot of mass. Setting a 'No Air' Restriction is different and will generally improve the AI defense.

Good Luck and enjoy
roj

Edited for clarity.

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 16 Mar 2014, 06:25

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2013-06-03T09:45:41+02:00

The main part of your script works very well...
If a Human commy dies the game ends with an AIx victory. I love it ...hehe.

Now I need to run some further tests to check what happens if an AIx commy dies.
The game should continue and both AIx should remain in the battle. That is ..the AIx who lost its commy should not give its units to the other AIx. I notice a line that forces 'Assassination' mode, and I hope there is no conflict, because it should be in 'Annihilation' mode.

We also tested to see if Omni 'On' would happen in game if Omni was set 'Off' in lobby.
The Omni remained 'Off'.
Another test was to see if AIx multiplier would reset to 1.4 in game if it was set to 1.0 in lobby. The multipliers remained at 1.0 in game.

I loaded your script on a map then edited it to include unit restrictions. This caused the Human commy death part of the script to fail to work. I don't know why this happens but it could be I have inserted the restrictions in the wrong place.
I added:
"local tblArmy = ListArmies()
for index,army in tblArmy
do
ScenarioFramework.AddRestriction(army, categories.xab1401) # aeon exp Paragon"
Could you please give me an example of your script with a working unit restriction.

We have not tested 'SetArmyAIPersonality' or 'SetArmyFactionIndex'.
I notice that In 'SetArmyAIPersonality' there is no naval 'possible value'.

Thanks for your input.
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 03 Jun 2013, 09:45

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2013-05-28T15:02:50+02:00

Thanks
I'll try the script with some friends to see what it does and report back.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 28 May 2013, 15:02

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2013-05-25T20:56:27+02:00

Ok, what I wanted to do is a bit harder then I expected. I currently have this script for one of your maps that should work (look at it to see what it does). You can probably adapt it to other maps.

I can't detect wether an AI is AIx or normal, so I can't set that, but you can set the general AI-archtype.
I haven't been able to test if the commanders of all the human players blowing up if one dies works.
I could also rewrite the OnPopulate script so that it can be hardcoded where everyone spawns, but this is probably quite a bit of effort.

Attached is a 'first draft' as it were.

Statistics: Posted by johnie102 — 25 May 2013, 20:56

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2013-07-22T05:14:18+02:00

Yes Sir ....your ideas sound excellent.

Feel free to modify any of my map scripts to your liking.
Please add ... 'Scripted by johnie102.' to map description.

We should change the name of each modified map with an added 'v2'.
One 'TeamPlayAI' button to set correct options, settings and maybe start positions would be wonderful.

The game should end immediately after any Human commy dies. It would be great if a custom text box showed a theme message of the AI rejoicing its Victory. " In the New Galactic Order the AI will be your Government."

If the Humans manage to defeat the AI the game will give Allied Victory now, it would also be good if there was a custom theme text declaring the push back of the AI imposed Matrix.

Thanks for your interest in making AI battles even more exciting and polished using advanced scripting.
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 21 May 2013, 03:25

Re: AI Co-Op TeamPlay

2013-05-20T23:36:48+02:00

Hey AwarE, you are talking a lot about the ideal settings per map and per skill level for the AIs. Would you be interested in a method where players can simply set them in the game options before starting the game (under a new heading 'TeamPlay').
I'm envisioning this as a two options:
Restrictions: On and Off
Player skill level: Noob, Average, Pro

And maybe some more to your liking? I have recently modded the Zone Control map (for 8 players, it's a lot of fun ) and learned quite a bit about map scripting, so I could probably help.

This way you could also set the victory conditions to all Human Player Comms surviving.

Statistics: Posted by johnie102 — 20 May 2013, 23:36