Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-22T05:05:22+02:00

If we speak about 10x10 map with 8+ people, than sure. Each player gets 3-4 SAMs and flak with his units which makes ~40% of map from each side locked for long air flights, while land units would need to walk 5-8 km from one main base to another. If it would be 40x40 map with 2 people on it, we would see different picture: land/naval based AA would be so spread around map and mass sufficient air force could just kill proxy bases one by one and get repaired for no cost in air staging facility so it would be impossible to defend without own interceptors, while land units would need to travel 30-35 km from one main base to another which would make forces outmatched by the time they reach enemy base if air doesnt kill them before. But even on 10x10 map you may not afford yourself to defend with 5+ t3 shields per strategic target. Shield 4 ACUs like that and mass sufficient amount of strats may just snipe one.

Now about units. Air has no turtle breakers to kill stationary aa without engaging it directly. Land units have. T2/T3 stationary AA rapes its own type of air unit, only way PDs can get same affect against non-turtle breaker units is having a lot of wall lines between them.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 22 Oct 2015, 05:05

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-22T01:32:16+02:00

people think its OP cause of gap and thermo lol

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 22 Oct 2015, 01:32

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-22T00:20:03+02:00

oh please stop talking about uef T3 pd as if it was a good unit.

if you are getting T3 pd creep, and you are not able to stop it with few T3 arty i can't help you...

tbh, i see the use of this as : building 1 in an advance base, to keep mml away.
or in T3 acu drop, after you have been spaming T1 then T2. You can use T3 once again, to out range mml and opponent T2 pd.

in general (a part out ranging mml and other T2 pd) this unit is more for disuation than any other use, people are easily scare of this unit.

when i see it build, 90% of the time it's a waste of mass. better invest into some mobile unit (percy) that are mobile, and allow to gain and keep map control way better.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 22 Oct 2015, 00:20

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T23:25:02+02:00

isnt that kinda realistic? large distance fighting is what planes and drops are for but eventually you need to get into a land slug fest?

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 21 Oct 2015, 23:25

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T23:11:16+02:00

da_monstr wrote:
Barring an insane amount of multi-layered T3 AA, it's close to impossible to prevent a large strat snipe from coming through and killing your com in one pass. Air is good for taking out single targets, not bases. (unless you have Ahwassa/ SR)

so is a UEF T3 PD wall

land in my eyes is where the fights take place. and every plane comes back to the ground.. sooner or later.
air adds one dimension more, just as teleporting and stealth does.
on the other hand, that air-dimension is kind of two sided. more easy to targetable targets, and vice versa, easier to target themself. its a flat new dimension that has the shape of a plane (not airplane), if you know/understand what i mean.

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 21 Oct 2015, 23:11

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T18:52:27+02:00

yes you still can do that, but 2 shields with 10k HP each, dont mean you have 20k Hp together. and the more shields you build the less you actually get fromt hem if you dont micro them.

Statistics: Posted by Mr-Smith — 21 Oct 2015, 18:52

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T15:35:14+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
I was talking about the shield nerf that effectively caps the maximum amount of HP of a shield grid of arbitrary size but whatever.

I don't understand what you mean, you can still protect your ACU by building 5 shields around it can't you?

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 21 Oct 2015, 15:35

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T15:29:53+02:00

lextoc wrote:
zeroAPM wrote:
lextoc wrote:I heard shields are quite effective tho

Not anymore.

If you move your ACU to the back of your base and protect it with shields and build SAMs at the front of your base your opponent should have a really hard time killing your ACU, especially if you have some ASF as well. Ofcourse it depends on how well you are able to execute your defense strategy, sometimes you just didn't scout or whatever and can't protect your ACU in time.

I was talking about the shield nerf that effectively caps the maximum amount of HP of a shield grid of arbitrary size but whatever.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 21 Oct 2015, 15:29

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T13:44:20+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
lextoc wrote:I heard shields are quite effective tho

Not anymore.

If you move your ACU to the back of your base and protect it with shields and build SAMs at the front of your base your opponent should have a really hard time killing your ACU, especially if you have some ASF as well. Ofcourse it depends on how well you are able to execute your defense strategy, sometimes you just didn't scout or whatever and can't protect your ACU in time.

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 21 Oct 2015, 13:44

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T13:12:49+02:00

lextoc wrote:
I heard shields are quite effective tho

Not anymore.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 21 Oct 2015, 13:12

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T11:55:06+02:00

da_monstr wrote:
Barring an insane amount of multi-layered T3 AA, it's close to impossible to prevent a large strat snipe from coming through and killing your com in one pass. Air is good for taking out single targets, not bases. (unless you have Ahwassa/ SR)

I heard shields are quite effective tho

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 21 Oct 2015, 11:55

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T11:35:08+02:00

Barring an insane amount of multi-layered T3 AA, it's close to impossible to prevent a large strat snipe from coming through and killing your com in one pass. Air is good for taking out single targets, not bases. (unless you have Ahwassa/ SR)

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 21 Oct 2015, 11:35

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T10:17:44+02:00

Air usually gets used to snipe specific targets (such as ACU's, monkeylords, early T3, etc). Biggest advantage of air is their speed, biggest disadvantage is that they are very vulnerable once the opponent has anti-air. If you're lucky and your opponent didn't see your air coming (15 gunships for example) you can easily attack a base if you've the apm for it. Or you can take map control back if you haven't got it, but then the opponent will have AA up in time by the time you get to his base.

As for T3 air, this will almost always get scouted as you can't really get it that fast.

I'm talking mostly from a 1vs1 perspective here...

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 21 Oct 2015, 10:17

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T10:04:24+02:00

He is right. It's very hard to kill a base with air. You might be able to snipe that late game target, but damn it will take you 25 strats to do it. And your own cloud of asf to clear a path. Putting about 100k mass on the line yourself.

A good air player knows his primary role is to defend against a quick strat that can take out those juicy T2 mex with storage, mercies or a pack of gunships on a com. From about minute 20 there will be clouds of asf, shields and other aa methods to prevent such big problems. You can then maybe snipe some outlying eco or unprotected targets, or possibly attack a naval fleet with your torp bombers when they build no cruisers or hover flak. That's it. You will really have to dominate the other team in order to use air to ground other than sniping on a one way mission / kamikaze style from mid to late game.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 21 Oct 2015, 10:04

Re: Defending against Air Vs Land

2015-10-21T00:16:31+02:00

yeager wrote:
Air can pick and choose there targets freely, and bombers can assassinate cons and exps. Also it doesn't matter how much as and shields you have, eventually bombers will break through (minus 40 scus assisting a sera shield)

So there strength is denial of map control?

Statistics: Posted by bigcrap757 — 21 Oct 2015, 00:16