Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2015-08-20T15:18:13+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=10572 2015-08-20T15:18:13+02:00 2015-08-20T15:18:13+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=108024#p108024 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
briang wrote:
I would much rather have someone who was 1500 after 50 games than 1500 after 1500 games. One shows incredible aptitude and likely listens to better players while the other clearly has a limited capacity.


There might be multiple reasons why people have a high number of games and be 1500 besides having a limited capacity.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 20 Aug 2015, 15:18


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2015-08-19T20:26:07+02:00 2015-08-19T20:26:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107923#p107923 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]> Statistics: Posted by =M.V.K.= — 19 Aug 2015, 20:26


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2015-08-19T18:10:44+02:00 2015-08-19T18:10:44+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107910#p107910 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
briang wrote:
I would much rather have someone who was 1500 after 50 games than 1500 after 1500 games. One shows incredible aptitude and likely listens to better players while the other clearly has a limited capacity.

What does it have to do with you how long it takes to anyone to become "good " ?

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 19 Aug 2015, 18:10


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2015-08-19T02:28:24+02:00 2015-08-19T02:28:24+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107858#p107858 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
One thing you can do to feel better is host your own games and play with friends when the occasion arises.

But this won't get you any higher ranks.

First, you need to make sure you know, how to do things with your mouse and your keyboard.

Selecting units, selecting air, land sea. Selecting arty out of a combined land army. Making build orders.
Ferrrying units with transports. Ranges of units. Selecting engies and ACU. Having an elementary understanding
Of what counters what. Obtaining a "spatial " feeling of the map you are playing. Knowing where's everything and what it's doing
At any time. You may think, I am bulshitting you, suggesting automatic and boring actions. But I kid you not, you can't begin to learn calculus if you don't know the numbers and you can't play soccer if you have not mastered walking and running first.

Depending on a number of factors, this thing may take from weeks to months for you to master. I suggest you start playing ladder, to master these skills, after only devoting 50 or much less hours to training with an A.I.. Noone will kick you from ladder, and you will have the chance to play a lot of games in a very short time period. This will give you the chance to really test your skills and obtain confidence you always can execute an action when necessary.
So, now you may say, "from weeks to months???" Listen, most players in FA have had, not weeks or months but years to master these skills, everyone according to his/her skillfulness. Don't let anyone pose to you, he knows a thing or two. If you really like FA you need to pass through this stage. And please for your own good, avoid custom games, that have been falsely baptised as ranked, because this will only lead to you acquiring bad habits in a time consuming and deceptively pleasant way.

This is the first step my friend, don't despise it ,but embrace it. Then, come after only learning how to walk and run and show off to these arrogant little pricks, who think that the rating , distorted as it has been, means a thing or two. Make them lose from a -400 noob.

This is the first stage my friend and I won't pass to the second, just to stress how important it is.

Learn to control your ACU, to dance with it, to avoid fire. Learn to move and position your army. Learn to pick fast a unit you want out of hundreds. Learn to be effective with the units you have and don't use them only as a blob. You may watch videos about other things from masters, such as economy, strategies, build orders, but don't have yourself lost in an ocean of information. Focus on controlling your units. And one last thing. I spoke about a spatial awareness of where everything is. This means YOU ALWAYS NEED TO BUILD RADAR TO HAVE PASSIVE INTELLIGENCE AND ACTIVELY SCOUT AT ALL TIMES.I can't stress this enough.

Do all of the above .It may take you 2 to 3months and 500 of utterly disheartening games. But, please, after doing "only" this, come back to play pseudo ranked custom games with people who think they know some strategy, and show them the results of a proper training, even without any official training on strategy.

Then we can talk about stage 2.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 19 Aug 2015, 02:28


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2015-08-18T16:03:47+02:00 2015-08-18T16:03:47+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107824#p107824 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
Ionic wrote:
I think we all realize that you don't care what anyone else thinks.


Helps me stay positive on the forums :)

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 18 Aug 2015, 16:03


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2015-08-17T20:32:47+02:00 2015-08-17T20:32:47+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107762#p107762 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
We all agree that some 1500's are amazing players (Morax) and some 1500's are shit players (Me). We have so few players that if we had two teams of only 1500's we could easily stack the game so one team wins 95% of the time.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 17 Aug 2015, 20:32


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2015-08-17T20:00:31+02:00 2015-08-17T20:00:31+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107759#p107759 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
I would have to predict the 3 1200 players would have more skill than the combined benefit of experience of the 800 players with 1000s of games.

Pick 4 players with 1200 and 1000+ games each vs 4 players with 1200 and 20 games each and I will predict you a victory for the more experienced team in 99% of matches. This is because while they both may have the same skills the experienced players have more bags of tricks to dig from and therefore I believe make stronger players.

If you all believe rating alone is an indicator especially in team games I simply choose to disagree. In 1v1 I don't think game quality is a metric that matters.

I am not advocating changing the rating system at all but if that is what you guys would want to do to make more players welcome I would welcome that. To be clear, It is my opinion the current system sucks but I don't care what you do about it.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 17 Aug 2015, 20:00


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2015-08-17T19:58:48+02:00 2015-08-17T19:58:48+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107758#p107758 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
BattleMoose wrote:
Maybe even host 1v1 custom games, some fool will think he has a noob to smash around but instead, because you played ladder and got good, you will annihilate him. Again, he will be angry and accuse you of smurfing but there isn't really another way.


This is a great idea. Play ladder because people can't kick you from ladder, than when you're good do custom 1v1s to up your global rank. It's not smurfing if you're not trolling. :)

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 17 Aug 2015, 19:58


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2015-08-17T12:42:11+02:00 2015-08-17T12:42:11+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107742#p107742 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>

KD7BCH wrote:
You are also now changing the terms. 3 players at 1200 vs 3 players at 800 with more games isn't better and I never said it is.


But you imply that the 1200 with less games is not as skilled as the rating says he is. In the following paragraph you literally say that a 1200 with fewer games is not as good as a 1200 with more games. Ergo, he is not a true 1200.

KD7BCH wrote:
But that 1200 rating on a player with 20 games means d*** if they are facing a player rated 1200 with 2000 games which is what I said. Experience isn't factored into game quality while trueskill is, but trueskill sucks at placing players early on which is a weakness which is negatively impacting new players.


Here we have it. Your central statement, or rather "assumption".

Number of games means d*** to stay in your eloquent choice of words. People can have way more experience than their game count lets you believe, either from GPG, Steam or simply a billion ladder games. And what about in depth knowledge from watching casts, forumwhoring etc. Also, someone with a high game count can be an utter noob, for many reasons. Playing dumb maps, low rated opponents, stacked etc. Or maybe there is just no interest in getting better.

KD7BCH wrote:
It is my opinion that it sucks. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but don't change the numbers or statements I make just because you don't agree.


Even opinions need some factual basis. Also you are making an argument for actual changes are you not? Then you are not merely stating an opinion but pushing for changes in FAF, based on said opinion.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 17 Aug 2015, 12:42


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2015-08-15T18:48:44+02:00 2015-08-15T18:48:44+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107651#p107651 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
KD7BCH wrote:
But that 1200 rating on a player with 20 games means d*** if they are facing a player rated 1200 with 2000 games which is what I said. Experience isn't factored into game quality while trueskill is, but trueskill sucks at placing players early on which is a weakness which is negatively impacting new players.


I fail to see how this is relevant.

The player with 20 games has a less accurate rating, yes.

But we can't know if it's better or worse. All we know is that this is where the player is now.

Without additional information (because there is none, until more games are played) nothing should be assumed.

Which is precisely what happens now.


Suppose you leave for 4 months come back with 4 patches which impact gameplay pretty substantially, and you now suck. Trueskill also now takes a long time to re-rate you if you already have 1000 games or 2000 games.


Start to lose a bunch of games in a row, and I assure you your rating will decrease very fast. If it doesn't, then there are two options: you still are good enough, or you didn't play enough to decrease it.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 15 Aug 2015, 18:48


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2015-08-15T00:49:44+02:00 2015-08-15T00:49:44+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107603#p107603 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]> Statistics: Posted by Deering — 15 Aug 2015, 00:49


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2015-08-15T00:19:08+02:00 2015-08-15T00:19:08+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107602#p107602 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
KD7BCH wrote:
What is wrong with having a 2nd rating system on top Kill:Death:Drop where you have information on how many kills a player has, how many deaths they have, and what % of drops they have?

the fact that you are giving players a number(s) which they believe is more accurate at skill representation than it actually is.
you are misleading people, leading them to judge others based on not-very-useful info, which in turn leads to other people-issues (just look at certain individuals who think anyone who isnt in the top10 sentons club has no say in anything : D )

every rating system has this problem. its just that trueskill is based on the only thing it makes sense to measure (chance to win), and nice statistics, unlike a simple k/d counter.
KD7BCH wrote:
There are plenty of players who are manipulating the system to exploit as well since trueskill can be exploited.

as is true of any system tbh so i don't really see the point here



hope this helps

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 15 Aug 2015, 00:19


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2015-08-14T23:46:07+02:00 2015-08-14T23:46:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107600#p107600 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
KD7BCH wrote:
What is wrong with having a 2nd rating system on top Kill:Death:Drop where you have information on how many kills a player has, how many deaths they have, and what % of drops they have? There are plenty of players who are manipulating the system to exploit as well since trueskill can be exploited.


What exactly does how many kills, deaths, or drops tell about how good a player is? Also how are players manipulating the system? Are you talking about players that get high rating by playing only one map?

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 14 Aug 2015, 23:46


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2015-08-14T19:53:42+02:00 2015-08-14T19:53:42+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107587#p107587 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
Ionic wrote:
KD7BCH assumes if you disagree with any of his fundamental options you are a troll.

KD lets put it this way. I will take 3 players that have an average of 1200 rating and 200 games, and you can cherry pick 800 ratings with over 500 games and we will do a best of 3.


That is an opinion. lol :) Just learned from experience that moderators on certain boards don't shut off trolls. I do think the logic of do I do something once, do I have the same ability level as if I have done it 10 times I say no. If my rating is the same at 1000 be it played 1 game or 10 makes no difference, I say it does. You are of course free to disagree.

The only time I think it matters enough to make it reflected is on game quality. Previous poster in effect said I said number of games should contribute to overall rating, which I did not say. I say and believe number of games should affect the way rank is figured in game quality balance for team games.

You are also now changing the terms. 3 players at 1200 vs 3 players at 800 with more games isn't better and I never said it is.

But that 1200 rating on a player with 20 games means d*** if they are facing a player rated 1200 with 2000 games which is what I said. Experience isn't factored into game quality while trueskill is, but trueskill sucks at placing players early on which is a weakness which is negatively impacting new players.

Suppose you leave for 4 months come back with 4 patches which impact gameplay pretty substantially, and you now suck. Trueskill also now takes a long time to re-rate you if you already have 1000 games or 2000 games.

It is my opinion that it sucks. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but don't change the numbers or statements I make just because you don't agree.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 14 Aug 2015, 19:53


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2015-08-14T19:40:44+02:00 2015-08-14T19:40:44+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=10572&p=107586#p107586 <![CDATA[Re: How does one gain higher ranks?]]>
KD lets put it this way. I will take 3 players that have an average of 1200 rating and 200 games, and you can cherry pick 800 ratings with over 500 games and we will do a best of 3.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 14 Aug 2015, 19:40


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