Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-08-04T09:08:07+02:00

Bumping though I think is as relevant as it is "annoying" for otherwise it would be..least in bumping at all..

Having say "unit" direction be say a priority more for of then not is probably fine, but for when it is not then/where it is..

Statistics: Posted by =M.V.K.= — 04 Aug 2015, 09:08

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-08-01T16:02:00+02:00

I'm not going to engage with tatsu's evidence-free crusade against a mechanic only he seems to have a problem with, especially as he broke this promise after I asked him for replays:

tatsu wrote:
I refuse to continue debating in this closed-minded fashion.

But this is interesting:

JaggedAppliance wrote:
Spread move makes com-blocking too easy, it's like a cheat button.

Until you discover they have overcharge and you lose 5+ tanks in one shot. It's really not that many extra clicks to block manually (I'd say it's a quick dragbox selection and a move order for up to three tanks, so two clicks and maybe use of the Move hotkey), and you don't risk hilariously insta-vetting their apparently-isolated ACU and losing your army. I use both methods, usually split-move is a stress/desperation move for me, but is not really much more effective and I've had a few experiences with my units blocking each other and/or dying badly to OC (or bombers once when I used it to run my units away and then left them there idling ).

I'm not taking the piss, I really think it's cost me as many kills as it's got me and it's something I'm trying to minimise/remove from my game - it FEELS much stronger than it actually is I think.

Statistics: Posted by Sir Prize — 01 Aug 2015, 16:02

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-31T00:26:35+02:00

you're saying that if the com isn't blocked he'll eventually win.

I think that's a false assumption generally but if he does have that predisposition and you can't handle several battlefields at the same time but he can (if that is what you were implying) then he may well have deserved to win.

Well, he doesn't have to handle several battlefields, he can just kite in and out of the water. Then if I invest a bunch of mass into a naval fac and some subs or into t2 air and some torp bombers, he gets the advantage on land, and then he doesn't need to stay in the water. In that sense, it discourages developing the different battlefields, because they don't get me an advantage. I can't kill him with land, but I can't go air or sea or he will win at land.

Edit: forgot the quote

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 31 Jul 2015, 00:26

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-30T23:20:19+02:00

tatsu wrote:
I think that's a false assumption generally but if he does have that predisposition and you can't handle several battlefields at the same time but he can (if that is what you were implying) then he may well have deserved to win.

There is not always a "well deserved win" in FA. That's why you can snipe a ACU. Without snipe it's not FA anymore and i see commblocking as a litlle snipe happening because you are to dumb to move your acu away from units. (by you i don't mean to point you tatsu ^^)

Statistics: Posted by SilverKronos — 30 Jul 2015, 23:20

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-30T21:37:18+02:00

quark036 wrote:
Finally, as several others have said, comblocking can be your only option to stop an acu from escaping into the water, other than making costly investments into navy or t2 air, that will likely cost you land. I don't think that improves gameplay, I think it takes away from it, because it means that getting a sizeable land advantage Doesn't help you, on those maps.

you're saying that if the com isn't blocked he'll eventually win.

I think that's a false assumption generally but if he does have that predisposition and you can't handle several battlefields at the same time but he can (if that is what you were implying) then he may well have deserved to win.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 30 Jul 2015, 21:37

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-27T21:06:15+02:00

tatsu wrote:
quark036 wrote:Tatsu, perhaps you can explain why you think it sucks gameplay wise?

because it doesn't require skill to do, as the above video demonstrates you can have a mod exploit this to the utmost for you anyways.

and while we're on the topic of skill, you can conversely have as much skill as you want, if you're caught with your com in that scenario, there's no amount of godlike micro that will result in anything different than a single long move command from a noob.

I'd wager that quite explicitly sets com-blocking in the realm of "broken" rather than "feature", I already more than elaborately went into this above.

and I'm saying that the revolutions allowing com to stomp t1 units perhaps also bump t2 collosus-style would provide gameplay-wise, such as forcing you to have actual kill DPS to get a kill, make the com *slightly* more buff in that regard and allowing escaping into water or into defenses to be a thing once again would be really interesting.

Well, I don't really agree with your definition of skill. I think supcom should be more about the overall strategy, as well as the tactical disposition of your army, but not as much about the tiny micro. It already does this very well, and its even advertised that this is a good thing about it on the faf homepage.

If a noob has 20 tanks by your acu and you don't have anything to stop them other than acu micro, they probably shouldn't be called a noob. If they get that far ahead, I don't think you should be able to save yourself by godlike micro. If this was more like starcraft, maybe, but I don't think we should punish someone who is good at strategy just because their micro isn't top of the line. Like I said, skill shouldn't be about micro.

Also, they do have "actual kill dps to get a kill," you just think that the dps required should be higher. That's a perfectly fine opinion, but it doesn't mean that this is broken.

Finally, as several others have said, comblocking can be your only option to stop an acu from escaping into the water, other than making costly investments into navy or t2 air, that will likely cost you land. I don't think that improves gameplay, I think it takes away from it, because it means that getting a sizeable land advantage Doesn't help you, on those maps.

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 27 Jul 2015, 21:06

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T20:28:36+02:00

JaggedAppliance wrote:
"Why isn't com-blocking a cheat button?" Does this question make sense to you?

it's correct english. yes it does.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 26 Jul 2015, 20:28

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T19:55:34+02:00

you the only one complaining about it tatsu.........

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 26 Jul 2015, 19:55

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T19:40:46+02:00

tatsu wrote:
JaggedAppliance wrote:Spread move makes com-blocking too easy, it's like a cheat button.

why isn't com-blocking a cheat button?

that's exactly the way I see it.

"Why isn't com-blocking a cheat button?" Does this question make sense to you?

@Zoram, watch TA's video he linked earlier in the thread.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 26 Jul 2015, 19:40

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T19:25:00+02:00

what is spread move ?

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 26 Jul 2015, 19:25

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T19:22:24+02:00

JaggedAppliance wrote:
Spread move makes com-blocking too easy, it's like a cheat button.

why isn't com-blocking a cheat button?

that's exactly the way I see it.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 26 Jul 2015, 19:22

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T16:48:19+02:00

yeah you could be right. i just see it as a new game mechanic. if you take the good with the bad and just adjust with it ... its overall not terrible imo

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 26 Jul 2015, 16:48

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T16:45:43+02:00

Well it reduces thinking as well. Possible OCs and some arty shots are not that big a disadvantage compared to being able to move units faster whenever you want to move them or being able to trap an acu with a lot less effort than before spread move. Spread move is just too strong imo.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 26 Jul 2015, 16:45

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T16:32:04+02:00

i disagree its a cheat ... ur just not used to it yet.

all it really is is an alternative movement method. sometimes normal move has advantages, sometimes spread-move does. It comes in handy in more than one situation (moving navy / retreating your units fast from getting shot by acu) and has disadvantages as well (t1 arty can murder tightly clustered units / acu can overcharge 10 tanks at once).

i think all it really does is change how ballsey you can be with your acu. In most situations you would have units with your acu so you can just kite with units and acu and you wont get stuck, even if they use spread move or not. However the time when you will get really screwed by spread move is when you had your acu in a position where it could just die suddenly to a lot of units.

So really its not about cheating... its just that lots of players are used to acu being invincible and suddenly it is slightly less invincible.

Is it a bad thing?

Maybe. But having the alternative-move-method is a good thing in my opinion. I have more control over the game. There is less clicking involved in doing stuff. Things are good.

You might also consider my mod a cheat then... (ui party mod). It also does things that reduce clicking (i refer to the group cycle feature)

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 26 Jul 2015, 16:32

Re: Pathfinding exploit

2015-07-26T16:18:30+02:00

Spread move makes com-blocking too easy, it's like a cheat button.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 26 Jul 2015, 16:18