Forged Alliance Forever

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-02T19:33:23+02:00

Let people play what they want besides I would transfer a million players from playing LoL to playing Gap in a heartbeat if I had the choice

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 02 Jul 2015, 19:33

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-02T19:13:15+02:00

briang wrote:
Seton's is literally the longest standing map of any RTS ever... so no changing it, and there's nothing wrong with it... the issue with Gap is that it overall makes people worse players...

I wasn't suggesting modifying it and not keeping the original on the vault.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 02 Jul 2015, 19:13

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T21:56:32+02:00

Agreed, please close thread.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 01 Jul 2015, 21:56

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T21:45:22+02:00

How about you're not allowed to join or host a gap unless you've played... say... 400+ games first? kidding, of course.

The real solution here folks, and I'm pretty experienced here so take this as gospel, that no one should be allowed to host Gap as long as I'm online. That way my lobby fills up faster.

Statistics: Posted by DarkTemplar — 01 Jul 2015, 21:45

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T21:42:08+02:00

keyser wrote:
since when selkie is better than canis or wonder ? xD

Another Scared newb! Canis has two tiny gaps (except for hover), not enough water to use except for hiding. Wonder is a fun drinking game... The map could be called Flat with more mass. Wonder is fun everytime, Canis is so boring like playing an ASF build on Setons.

For the record I even play thermo sometimes, I like ridiculous gameplay occasionally. But, I think ranking gap play is ridiculous at this point!

Considering overplayed meta maps to skew rating is something that would be nice to address. Addressing the issue should cause more people to play other maps, the example being thermo.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 01 Jul 2015, 21:42

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T20:25:08+02:00

since when selkie is better than canis or wonder ? xD

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 01 Jul 2015, 20:25

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T20:22:42+02:00

What about modifying the most played maps to fix the flaws on that that make them noob or what have you? Gap, make the gap wider. Remove some of the middle mass which makes for ridiculous ACU engagements in the first 2 min. Setons, bring the air player up behind the front middle guy, and leave the back as a potential landing area should the enemy air team get a spec ops force inside you have to fight on two fronts, or just leave it mostly mass less and for building back as the front lines are solidified. Or put some more islands on Setons, make it an island hopping map on 20x20 like it is.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 01 Jul 2015, 20:22

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T19:59:11+02:00

...or make ladder ranked again so that everybody can cheat himself the exact rating he wants

Statistics: Posted by jmd3au1 — 01 Jul 2015, 19:59

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T19:29:50+02:00

Briang I will come out and say it that I consider you a friend on FAF. I think you're 1800 rating is close to fair. If the maps were random, I think your rating would be lower, as would mine. Some players would have much better rating.

Selkie Island is better than gap, canis and wonder... No one joins Selkie hosts above 1k rating. People are scared of it. Setons is better since it requires more team play, the problem is like mentioned by Morax the meta is so strong.

I think there were 3 valid ideas.

1. fix the map icons (maybe require a map pack download to play).
2. Create hostless game, 2v2,3v3,4v4 that are on random map (I hate hosting, since people bitch)
3. Tighten the global rating even more to bring people together (remember when we rounded the rating, that worked out really good for the community)

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 01 Jul 2015, 19:29

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T16:05:23+02:00

What you really want is a designation or algorithm to be developed that shows how effective a player will be on a map other than Gap/Setons/etc so that the game is not a total wash. In theory, that is quite demanding....

Here are the requirements:

1) Statistics on a player's performance on individual maps (need a server-stored counter of each player's games on each map and win/loss)

2) An average global rating of all maps (pretty much the current global rating)

3) Game lobby rating switcher that can balance with a "precision" option:
a) "Precision" rating is one that shows rating based on the current map (e.g. Wonder 4v4 v3b)
b) Balance % is calculated based on a player's experience on said map

4) Game lobby rating switcher that can balance with a "preferred maps selection" option:
a) "Preferred maps selection" is a pool of common maps (to be determined)
b) Game lobby host can select from a preset pool:
i) Small range (just an example) - Canis, Tabula, Hilly, Pyramid, Isis, Wonder
ii) Large range (just an example) - Lost Paradise, Canis, Tabula, Wonder, Isis, Pyramid, Hilly Plat Small, Stella Maris, Schloob, Anticancer (most team maps)
iii) Custom range - game lobby spends oodles of time selecting maps to pool data (excessive, demanding, probably what is being asked for)

Anyways, you see how complicated it could get to get a real feel for someone's performance based on rating? It's not a simple task and simply unranking Gap of Rohan won't resolve the issue.

PERSONAL COMMENT:

I think that a map like Canis River has become "Seton's 2." The lack of innovation and time that has passed with the current map pool has led to extremely fine-tuned metas where if you don't FOLLOW THE META you get screamed at by fellow mates (who hasn't gotten a "HEY THAT'S MY MEX YOU DUMB DUMB" in ally chat?).

Face it: Supp Comm is 10 years old and the real solution is to create new maps, code, etc. If you want something to change at this point you yourself need to take the time to create new content. The time it takes to write out well-thought message board posts could be used to learn coding, mapping, etc.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 01 Jul 2015, 16:05

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T15:45:24+02:00

Ionic wrote:
I propose that GAP (Gap of Rohan) is added to the list of maps that are unranked by default.

Setons is given a max allowed rating ceiling of 2000. So you can't reach above 1600 if you only play Setons, unless you are gala.

Both of these changes would cause players to play other maps regularly, which would improve the community and reduce robo players that play the same map to lessen their self-ego.

Lastly, for me personally it would reduce my rating to 1200 ish and I would have more lobbies available to me.

We should also consider 1v1 games played, not in ladder unranked. This is obvious.

I propose that Wonder, Pyramid, Plateua and all the other random, small, land-only maps get unranked....

People that farm to 1500 on Gap only won't be 1500 on other maps anyway, so the problem of a shortness of players @1500 at the times you play will persist either way, unless the player base is just increased in size.

Blodir wrote:
Apofenas wrote:Thermo might be an example. I used to see a lot more games when that map was ranked, although it's special case as ZeP didn't like that map and wanted to completely delete it, there were a lot of cheaty versions of it and it had scripted restrictions that avoided unranking. Any way since it became impossible to farm rating on it we don't see too many games.

Thermo is unranked either way, because of building restrictions.

In the past I've played it without restrictions, so including air.

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 01 Jul 2015, 15:45

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T14:59:56+02:00

In my opinion this all is just a flaw of the rating system as we have it. Balancing based on that rating is not entirely accurate. The problem is that we don't have a better solution for balancing.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 01 Jul 2015, 14:59

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T14:33:07+02:00

No one forced you to x in a stacked lobby or a map you don't like.

If there are no people joining your 'different' game, tough luck. Don't try to force your views on other people. Incentives to play other maps are fine, when done right, but removing the most popular maps from ranking is incredibly stupid.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 01 Jul 2015, 14:33

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T13:20:16+02:00

Random spawns are bullshit, i wont be playing any shit spot when I have people for that I ll better take the middle and expand to every way as team mates are dying...

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 01 Jul 2015, 13:20

Re: GAP, unranked?

2015-07-01T12:58:04+02:00

The problem apofenas mentioned is interesting i faced this a lot. i Come to a wonder 4v4 game with several 1k people 1,4k people. You are 1500+. They "balance" the game and you are with the 1000 people and know that right 10 minutes after start (like it happened to me on wonder) you will see 2 acu nuke explosion left and right from you and you are meant to compensate this with a bit rating more than the players in the other team. SUre no problem, my second name is harry potter!

So rating is going away and away. A fair contest would be only with random teams all the time. Bad players would be simply extremely low rated. But then are coming people and complaining they are maltreated because they are shit on some positions and dont want to accept that it will lower their rating. Instead people try to gain rating with cheating the system by playing only 1 map 1 spot and "balance" games by rating. But an empty spot cannot be compensated so easy all the time I dislike this behaviour. I vote for fair contest and more random position games!

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 01 Jul 2015, 12:58