Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-03T15:57:39+02:00

speed2 wrote:
Slightly over 1mbit for 6v6

bidirectional?

Statistics: Posted by Flexable — 03 Jul 2015, 15:57

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-03T10:01:51+02:00

Slightly over 1mbit for 6v6

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 03 Jul 2015, 10:01

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-03T09:09:16+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
propagation time isn"t THAT big:

Let's do some calculations that might be complete bullshit because i looked none of it up:
c=300kk, but it's slower in mediums so i'd guess like 0.7c
d(australia/europe) like 12kkm or so
so that makes 12.000.000/(300.000.000*0.7) ~= 0,057s =>57ms (one way)

But the short answer is: the traffic doesn't change, just because you use a VPN on an abstract level, it still more or less the same amount of data going from one place to another.

c ~ 200kkms in fiber.

While unlikely to help, a proxy/vpn might help on very specific cases. An example could be that your ISP is using a free peering for your traffic on a saturated link, and being proxy out by another ISP you might follow a path without that saturated link. Or some DPI are in place and your traffic is classified in less than best effort, and vpn makes it impossible for DPI to happen and your traffic is better classified.

Did someone ever sniff SupcomFA traffic to see how much bandwidth it needs?

Statistics: Posted by Flexable — 03 Jul 2015, 09:09

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-02T13:28:48+02:00

Its fairly unlikely this will help unless the ISP is massively oversubscribed for it's international bandwidth.

Fwiw I even tried a hosted gaming machine service that had fa available, thinking maybe trading some input lag for network lag would make custom games better. Not even close, it was terrible. I'll take network lag over input lag.

Anyways, games work ok with aus/nz pings as long as the connection is stable and you don't have proxy connections to other aus/nz players. From what Ive seen its the instability of some aus players connections and proxy connections that mess games up

Statistics: Posted by arkitect — 02 Jul 2015, 13:28

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-02T10:16:59+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
so the hypothetical scenario is that physically there is a 1000mbps pipe between oz and europe

however my isp only rents a 30mpbs pipe between oz and eueope. all users for my isp have to share that 30mbps.

my connection to my isp is 12mbps. however my share of the oz/europe pipe is 2mbps so I get a speed of 2mbps.

now the vpn has as different rental arrangement and has a 40mbps pipe, shared between far less users than my very popular isp

when i connect to europe via the vpn I get 12mbps (limited by my connection to my isp) not 2mbps (limited by my isps connection to europe)

ah ok... that seems very unlikely though but well you can try ofc

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 02 Jul 2015, 10:16

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-02T03:28:32+02:00

in case it is unclear i am proposing to use an australian vpn, not a European one

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Jul 2015, 03:28

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-02T01:46:28+02:00

so the hypothetical scenario is that physically there is a 1000mbps pipe between oz and europe

however my isp only rents a 30mpbs pipe between oz and eueope. all users for my isp have to share that 30mbps.

my connection to my isp is 12mbps. however my share of the oz/europe pipe is 2mbps so I get a speed of 2mbps.

now the vpn has as different rental arrangement and has a 40mbps pipe, shared between far less users than my very popular isp

when i connect to europe via the vpn I get 12mbps (limited by my connection to my isp) not 2mbps (limited by my isps connection to europe)

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Jul 2015, 01:46

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-01T23:53:59+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
Zoram wrote:the bottleneck is further down the line.

ahja, where exactly? Tell me one realistic scenario please...

I have absolutely no idea, I'm saying that I understand the OP's question and reasonning, being non technically educated myself.

So if you could just elaborate on "no it wouldn't", that would be sweet. I mean the argument of authority is strong, you're named after a stargate character afterall, but a few more lines would make your reply all the more helpful.

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 01 Jul 2015, 23:53

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-01T23:35:27+02:00

Zoram wrote:
the bottleneck is further down the line.

ahja, where exactly? Tell me one realistic scenario please...

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 01 Jul 2015, 23:35

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-01T23:30:45+02:00

DarkTemplar wrote:
Anihilnine wrote:yes but dont you see i think my isp is being throttled.

its not about the physical distance ... sometimes connections to europe are 50ms which is fine. sometimes they are over 400ms. if you run with the theory that me/isp/something is being throttled for whatever reason (for example they only have a 100mbs connection for all users using that isp) then a vpn would circumvent that

im making assumptions about how all this works

What you're saying is that if you could just connect via a VPN, you could have incredible speeds. Assume you connect directly to Google, just for kicks. Google is very generous so they grant you a 1Gbps pipe. Guess what, you still only have 2Mbps to your computer from your ISP. Google throws 1Gbps at your modem and your modem says, sorry man, only 2Mbps allowed.

It's the classic hose argument. Maybe if I hook my garden hose up to this here fire hydrant, i can put out the fire. NOPE. You still have a garden hose, friend. It will always only hold so many gallons per minute. And yes I know that analogy is flawed, obviously the garden hose can't hook up and even with an adapter it would just explode in your face anyway. But hopefully you get the idea.

except his garden hose is very fine (assumedly) and the bottleneck is further down the line.
What he's saying is that he assumes that his provider can give him enough "pipe" until the VPN at which point the VPN would have take over for the "out of australia" part of the traffic, where his provider sucks.

It seems like an honest question. So why exactly wouldn't it work ? because VPN suffer from the same limitation as the australian ISP, or ?

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 01 Jul 2015, 23:30

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-01T21:56:47+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
yes but dont you see i think my isp is being throttled.

its not about the physical distance ... sometimes connections to europe are 50ms which is fine. sometimes they are over 400ms. if you run with the theory that me/isp/something is being throttled for whatever reason (for example they only have a 100mbs connection for all users using that isp) then a vpn would circumvent that

im making assumptions about how all this works

What you're saying is that if you could just connect via a VPN, you could have incredible speeds. Assume you connect directly to Google, just for kicks. Google is very generous so they grant you a 1Gbps pipe. Guess what, you still only have 2Mbps to your computer from your ISP. Google throws 1Gbps at your modem and your modem says, sorry man, only 2Mbps allowed.

It's the classic hose argument. Maybe if I hook my garden hose up to this here fire hydrant, i can put out the fire. NOPE. You still have a garden hose, friend. It will always only hold so many gallons per minute. And yes I know that analogy is flawed, obviously the garden hose can't hook up and even with an adapter it would just explode in your face anyway. But hopefully you get the idea.

Statistics: Posted by DarkTemplar — 01 Jul 2015, 21:56

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-07-01T15:12:31+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
me/isp/something is being throttled for whatever reason (for example they only have a 100mbs connection for all users using that isp) then a vpn would circumvent that

no it wouldn't

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 01 Jul 2015, 15:12

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-06-30T12:23:19+02:00

yes but dont you see i think my isp is being throttled.

its not about the physical distance ... sometimes connections to europe are 50ms which is fine. sometimes they are over 400ms. if you run with the theory that me/isp/something is being throttled for whatever reason (for example they only have a 100mbs connection for all users using that isp) then a vpn would circumvent that

im making assumptions about how all this works

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 30 Jun 2015, 12:23

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-06-30T12:17:02+02:00

propagation time isn"t THAT big:

Let's do some calculations that might be complete bullshit because i looked none of it up:
c=300kk, but it's slower in mediums so i'd guess like 0.7c
d(australia/europe) like 12kkm or so
so that makes 12.000.000/(300.000.000*0.7) ~= 0,057s =>57ms (one way)

But the short answer is: the traffic doesn't change, just because you use a VPN on an abstract level, it still more or less the same amount of data going from one place to another.

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 30 Jun 2015, 12:17

Re: Using a proxy/vpn to decrease lag

2015-06-30T11:24:00+02:00

Its not just the route tho right? Its how much bandwidth my isp has on that route, going via vpn would put me through their isp which might not be maxxed out.

And we are not trying to escape c, we are trying to get to c by avoiding contention

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 30 Jun 2015, 11:24