Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-07-03T17:52:25+02:00

Playing ladder, with the intent to become the best possible, requires a lot of time.

For "new" players - like me - the current system is too difficult.

- the ladder map pool (1v1) is way too big
- I can't have a thumb up and down map selection to try to increase the likeliness to play the same map.

To become "good" you need to practice several BO on a limited map pool. If you are to play the same map you want to learn every 10 games, that's difficult. Considering the map pool size, that's impossible. If you don't have friends of the same level than you, you can't really practice them out of ladder. It's a good enough reason to lose people in ladder.

The current system is only possible for people playing the game for years.

Statistics: Posted by Flexable — 03 Jul 2015, 17:52

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-07-01T20:40:23+02:00

Morax wrote:
Honestly I think the real solution to getting the ladder to be more popular is making the game itself more popular.

best point made in this thread.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 01 Jul 2015, 20:40

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-13T04:40:52+02:00

I think the division system should go back to how it used to be, seperated by ladder points, like expiremental is 2k+, t3 is like 1600+ and so on.., just random numbers. It was a nice drive a while back

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 13 Jun 2015, 04:40

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T23:39:18+02:00

well check what is tatsu/downlord doing. I think remove the division systeme, is good because no one cares about it anyways.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Jun 2015, 23:39

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T20:09:40+02:00

I can agree with all that. However, I do think that it's good to a reset of some sort just to keep things fresh. I think rating is not the good thing to reset, but a reworked (make it interesting) division system with some sort of reset might make things slightly more interesting.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 12 Jun 2015, 20:09

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T16:54:19+02:00

zock is still the best player. BH, pachuriko, adjux, voodoo, luxy are all top player and they are all have the rating that goes with it.
I'm trying my best to get into top 10, and i can tell you that the 200 rating difference between me and pachuriko is well worth it. He still rape me.

You can hide people that doesn't play after 1 month. But i feel like their rating is still accurate.

I don't see the point of a reset, and i think it would discourage me from playing.

vee idea is a really good one imo.

btw i'm not sure if "BH and the other" don't really play because of matching every time against the same people.

about the reduntante gamestyle, they can blame only themself. See ZLO that is doing wtf thing always, (even more with his smurf) and make it pay.
gyle not casting top player ladder doesn't mean there isn't. I'm watching a lot of them, and i can tell you they are really enjoyable. (pachuriko, embers, zlo, luxy....)

i don't have the demotivation of joly. I feel like if i can't get higher rating, it's because i don't get better. And that those 2300 rating are well worth it.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Jun 2015, 16:54

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T16:13:09+02:00

keyser wrote:
why it doesn't work as representation of skill ? better player have better rating, sound logic

you have league to represent your ladder activity (which is to me completely useless)

Basically i would sign that, too. But in my opinion a person who was 2300 two years ago has not the right to sit on #1 if he hasnt played a game since then.

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 12 Jun 2015, 16:13

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T16:08:42+02:00

I sugest what I suggested before, I think ladder ratings should be reseted periodically (like once in each 3 months). This would at least create a time period where most players would play just to try to get the top of the standings. At the end of each season, an avatar should be given to the top 10 of the season or something (and maybe some avatar to the best of lower ranks or something) and maybe something in faf open page. I think a great demovtiavtion for playing right now is just the fact that ladder rating diferences are so colossal when you get to the higher spots of the ladder, and everyone starting from nothing could at least make some interesting temporary comeptition.

Statistics: Posted by Joly — 12 Jun 2015, 16:08

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T16:06:26+02:00

The deviation should gradually increase over time. This has the effect that inactive players slowly lose their displayed rating (because displayed = average rating - X*deviation). However, because their deviation gets higher as well it is very easy to get back to the old rating by winning a handful of matches. Something like +1 deviation every day would do the job.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 12 Jun 2015, 16:06

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T15:07:16+02:00

Honestly I think the real solution to getting the ladder to be more popular is making the game itself more popular.

Blackheart (and you can correct me here) and some others don't really play much because they have been seeing the same 15-20-ish people all the time on the ladder for a long, long time. It's probably gotten so redundant seeing the same play styles that it's sickening to do it anymore. When is the last time Yharma_Dharma played against Voodoo or someone? I joined the community a year-ish ago and was seeing all these great 1v1 casts by Gyle of these players. Back then it was pretty light on he top ranks and it's only gotten worse since then.

I myself am seeing the same people on ladder all the time now and that's bad... if we can't afford 1200-1600 range players then the game has lost too much popularity.

The ladder would be far more popular if there was a better variety of players in my opinion; not a map cycle, ladder reset, prizes, etc. People seem to be plenty motivated-enough to get that AWESOME, SHINY high-number rating. The better the number the better the game is as you'll encounter more interesting opponents. I wish LAME didn't get himself banned because his ridiculous comm rushes were a painful and annoying thing to play, but it was entertaining and added some variety to the play styles.

Now, that's a lot of complaining so I have to ask everyone to chime in: how can we go above and beyond what visionik, Sheeo et al are doing? They have a lot of work on their hands and unless we become php-coding gurus to help sort the server code we probably can't hustle the advertisement phase of FaF on the high-level.

Well, how about we organize a list of strategy message boards and etc to promote FaF? Back in the day I would say go to website like totalannihlation.gamespy.com, but those are all dead.

I personally have to finish rewriting the WWPC this weekend, but after I'm going to search for every strategy-game enthusiast message board or website and share some FaF casts and try to motivate people to join the community.

In the meantime, I ask that the players keep playing and casters keep casting to make the club seem "alive." Nothing is more disheartening then hearing about something great and finding that it's all just tell without any show. If we stop competing then people stop caring.

So, maybe just get into the ladder or make some custom games a few times a week (1-3 hrs of your time) and keep things as interesting as possible until the Council Of Setons is at a point where they can move onto the next phase.

Maybe we create a separate thread without any arguing or input that just lists some other strat communities?

Bottom line: We need more people.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 12 Jun 2015, 15:07

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T14:49:16+02:00

why it doesn't work as representation of skill ? better player have better rating, sound logic

you have league to represent your ladder activity (which is to me completely useless)

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Jun 2015, 14:49

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T09:48:39+02:00

After reading Zeps thread....I have to correct myself...i don't support the rating reset rather then ladder points reset!

The actual rating is working fine for the matchmaker! But it's not working as representation of ladder activity and skill which it should be, too.

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 12 Jun 2015, 09:48

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T07:52:43+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
Yeah what would a rating reset do? Ok some people think their rating doesn't go up much... I don't have that problem myself. I think if there was a reset I would just have to put up with a lot of games where I get matched against the wrong player.

The fact that the rating stops moving after a while is a good thing. It just means you don't get better, or more precisely you don't get better faster than the average of players.

A rating reset would just upset the matchmaker, with no particular bonus. The rating is not a ladder. That's why there is a ladder system of top of it.
A ladder system is not easy to do and should be an iterative process to find a good solution, and it didn't changed for a year now.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 12 Jun 2015, 07:52

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T07:32:29+02:00

fixed season for league and division system instead of one we have now and give winners of each league a chance to put one and only one map into the pool for next season. gives incentive to win league other than just an avatar, maybe better incentive than an avatar.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 12 Jun 2015, 07:32

Re: Ideas for making the ladder more popular

2015-06-12T03:54:17+02:00

Yeah what would a rating reset do? Ok some people think their rating doesn't go up much... I don't have that problem myself. I think if there was a reset I would just have to put up with a lot of games where I get matched against the wrong player.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 12 Jun 2015, 03:54