Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-26T12:42:12+02:00

pip wrote:
If Nomads get stronger air units, they will simply be overpowered. For instance, having a fighter/bomber at t1 means nomads will only need to build 3 units : tanks, t1 mobile AA, and fighter/bomber, and the opponent cannot win

Now all T1 army need only 3 units type tanks + arty + interceptors. Its not so big differences, and nomads artys is more expensive and bomber is more expensive. styll interceptor to mass to mass totaly win. where nomads win is when enemy fly over nomads army, but that can happend on others army same and others AA are better like nomads one.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 26 Mar 2014, 12:42

Re: Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-25T23:25:33+02:00

Of course that nomads dont want to be best one, but actualy they are weeker. Its hard to compare, because is only little player plaing them, but T1 nomads land is in hell against auroras, bandits had serious problem, and ACU and sniper tanks dont solve it, it can solve only bomber who is not as good as serafins is, ok it can kill 3-4 tank together but in mostly all situation it kill only 1 or 2. When sera/aeon kill 5-6 auroras nomad kill 1-2. When you use it against sniping T1 Pgens it had biger problem becase aoe, and not 300 dmg for 2 pass like UEF/Cybran. +9% speed is nice, but nearly nothing with this disadvantages, and for that 2x bigger reload time unable to micro.
----- Its not so big different when tanks had 30hp or 0 and you are pushing your army, of course 0 is better, but had 1-2tanks with 0 or 5-6 with 30 then second one is better.

When nomad would build only tanks+ AA + fighter/bomber it will be raped by army of tanks and interceptors. Interceptors would be much more efective like fighter/bomber would be, and 50% cheaper, and other tank would rape nomads tanks. interceptor had 50% more HP 50% more dmg, 40% speed and cost 50% of mass and 80% of energy. arty do nearly zero dmg on moving tanks, and tanks are weaker like other fraction. So this can give nomads somthing for this disadvatages. And that bomber agianst interceptor is brutal waste. Like are tank destroers brutal waste used in bad situation.

T1 arti/AA is worst AA and totaly worst arty, only what is good is that its arty and AA together, but its better make AA and arty like nomads one. But styll its muth better aa like arty . You can make same strategy with other fraction, go with bomber with your AA land army, but why you need bomber when you army is near, or how rentabile is going with army on place where is going bomber? This simly never, or very occasionaly happend. And when it doesnt happend nomads bomber is on same lvl like UEF -crappy.

Same with golem, golems are fine, but styll jester is better, yeah that hes better. 20% price but 20% dmg and 20%surviability, jester live longer you can make biger problem with him like golem, i dont want to had cheaper units better, but styll when nomads T1 land is weak it need something for compare. that change would be golem less efective against units more against building /big units, becase army position would had bomber.

T2 bomber.
you must know that T2 fighter are never rentabile against air. Its toooooo expensive to use it against cheap interceptors.
nomads one are good agains army of weak units, thats what they are good, but thats all. And its btural waste do T2 bomber against T1 army what gunships are on that post better choice. (nod nomads one, becase are more expensive, but other are) And in mostly all situation, you cant make more like 1-2 pass with T2 bomber, when you had serious oponent they will come with interceptors and you lose your expensive bombers. How many tanks it can destroy on 1-2 pass, how many it cost?
Its not good against ships it has poor aiming, and do only slight dmg. It is not good against base, maybe against T1 PGen, but T2 bomber against T1Pgen ? Thats totaly not rentabile, and you do only slightli dmg on T2Pgen becase it has poor aiming on big place.
When T1 bomber not, ok that was more experimental suggestion, then im absolutely sure that T2 bomber sniper toggle realy need like salt.

PS: nomads so good, i like them

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2014, 23:25

Re: Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-25T22:19:14+02:00

Nomads t1 air is stronger than others. The t1 gunship is cheap, and even if it is less powerful than Jester, used with t1 mobile AA / arty, it makes it better. The t1 bomber, despite having 8 seconds reload, is the best one to use without micro because it is faster than all other bombers (speed = 11, others = 10), and is the most reliable to drop, because it uses rockets from wider agnles than other bombers. You think 280 damages in 2.5 AOE is not good enough, but actually, it can kill all t1 tanks in one shot (except UEF). For instance, it can kill 3 or 4 t1 tanks if they are packed together.
And same as for the t1 gunship : coupled with t1 mobile AA, it's easier to use it because Nomads players waste less mass on their AA because it also deals some damages against land units.

If Nomads get stronger air units, they will simply be overpowered. For instance, having a fighter/bomber at t1 means nomads will only need to build 3 units : tanks, t1 mobile AA, and fighter/bomber, and the opponent cannot win. That's also why the t1 gunship cannot be very strong.

The problem with the Torpedo gunship having problem to drop torpedoes on units in ponds is the same as the Seraphim bomber. Maybe it can be solved, as Brute51 said.

A toggle button on the fighter / bomber is not really needed. It is a good overall unit, good against air, good against groups of ground units and bases, good against ships, but not so good at sniping ACU (you need to attack from different directions). It is on purpose : there is no need to make it like a second Cybran bomber. Nomads units are not supposed to be better than all other factions, they are supposed to be a bit different. For sniping, Nomads already have the sniper tank, which is quite good against ACU. Sniper tanks + air units will give a hard time to any unprotected ACU.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 25 Mar 2014, 22:19

Re: Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-25T20:51:37+02:00

Thanks for your feedback. I'll leave the balance discussion to Pip but I do like to respond to your idea of a toggle button on the T2 fighter/bomber and the T2 gunship torpedo problem.
For the torpedo problem, I'll look into it. Perhaps I can make the torpedos fly forward while still in the air so that part of the distance to the target is covered while in the air.
The T2 F/B toggle button to switch between bombs and AG rockets could be interesting. Technically its not so hard to implement but balance wise, i'm not sure what's good. I'll talk to Pip about it.

Statistics: Posted by Brute51 — 25 Mar 2014, 20:51

Re: Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-25T12:37:05+02:00

In finaly that would mean T1 air nomads win as win T2 and T3air aeons. And on T2 phase nomads would had sniping potential as today cybran had (but 17% less efective).

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2014, 12:37

Nomads T1/T2 air

2014-03-25T12:45:47+02:00

Hi guys, i had some ideas how to make nomads air little bit better and master bit more in nomads style.
For the nomads is T1 air as important as T1 land, Nomads T1 land are weaker. But air isnt better as others.

T1 bomber, had 2x140 dmg on 2,5AOE, what is worse, and had 10sec reload time when others had 4sec reload time.
This is not the bomber which one nomads want nomads want great bomber, at least as good as serafins had. But i think they want better.

idea 1: phoenix fire rocket, nomad had technology of homing misile. Lets fire this rocket in homing system with small firing randomnes and less AOE. That would mean that on one pass bomber sly 3 units with less like 280hp what are together (in i dont know 5-6AOE ->compare with 4 on sera/aeon), it would be nearly unable to micro land units dont be hit, but bomber sly only 3 units with not whole army like sera/aeon can.

Idea 2: phoenix fire rocket, and looks like mix of interceptor and bomber, make him mix of interceptor and bomber.
80mass ->100mass 2250->2700energy and give him 50% of interceptor AA dmg.
-------------> that bonus would cost as 40% of interceptor (and less energy) had 50% dmg as interceptor. less hp as interceptor, totally less hp as bomber and 50% of interceptor together. but efective for spaming and spreading nomads air terror! great units for great nation! And totally in nomads style!

Idea 3: (but im not sure that it help or make it worse, or OP) T1 gunship golem: jester is already better like golem is, imho golem would be a diferent units, less powerfull against army more against building, good for terrorizing mexes and energy.
Golem dps 42->32 but dmg on place (similar function as acu capacitator /T3 bomber) after 0,5sec 0->32 so on small/fast moving units it take 32dps on staying objects/slow units 64dps

that would make from golem effective units on T2 phase too, becase nomads T2 gunships are most expensive, so it can be nicely mixed with golems, whith would take similar dmg on bigger/slower T2 army but had half HP like T2 had. Ideal units for nomads air army!
______________________________________
Lets go on T2 AIR
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At firs bug reaport: T2 gunship had serious problem with firing torpedos on small lakes. It doesnt fire when its not open sea or when its on fjord or somthing like that. It only stay and look it need big place for puting torpedos down.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

T2 Bomber: This units need toggle for bombard mode / snipe mode. Realy. spidfire if good against T1 army, but imposible to use on snipe energy, mexes, ACU. it had very big area dmg and low dmg on that area. pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls... make on that unit change toggle like is on Dominator tank, or destroyers ships, when it will be on then it will fire like it fire now, when it will be off it will concentrate dmg on small place like corsair (but less dmg like corsair 1000 vs 1200)

end of reaport.

PS: Nomads so good!

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2014, 12:25