Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T11:27:29+02:00

but why to increase the radius? there is no rational reason for this. the weakness of cybran arti is that i cant kill pd as fast as other t1 arti. the speciality of cybran is huge splash. it has already twice more than the others. why to increase the faction ability to nearly imba value when it does not change even a bit the problem it has? thats a random change. random changes without reason suck!
with such changes you are only creating problems. for example bomber change t1, to reduce energy. they thought to change the gameplay. nobody can deny that it is a bit op now (the definition of op is: if there is a unit or action possible which can cost the enemy a lot of existing ressource at one time or influence his gameplay slowing down alot, but to counter it is needed a huge efforts and/or micro and/or maybe even the same or more ressources than this action originally costed, then something is op). the problem is against fast bots there is a counter and you can protect your engis in the beginning even outside your main base. against a first bomber you cant get the counter, the t1 asf is not available at this time. so there is no way to protect your engis which are some meters away from the base. since you have only some engis it can kill nearly half of all your building power at this starting time at any place. thats 50% loss thats what we call influence a lot and no counter.

i want to tell that once you change the gameplay just for fun you can very very easy create problems.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 15 May 2012, 11:27

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T11:15:20+02:00

Iszh wrote:
thats exactly what we want to avoid. thats big changes in gameplay. i dont want to see the aeon players complaining about huge bääääämmm in aurora army when suddenly 10 tanks are missing.

to remove weakness means maximum to change a small thing and not more than 1 value just a bit to remove the weakness. changing the whole unit values will not do this!

If you are talking about my post : no, it's not.
+0.5 AOE increase is precisely a small change with a slight modification of a single value, improving the strength of the Medusa just a bit without changing the design of the unit in any way whatsoever.

And for your information, Auroras already die in packs by Medusas.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 15 May 2012, 11:15

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T10:25:00+02:00

thats exactly what we want to avoid. thats big changes in gameplay. i dont want to see the aeon players complaining about huge bääääämmm in aurora army when suddenly 10 tanks are missing.

to remove weakness means maximum to change a small thing and not more than 1 value just a bit to remove the weakness. changing the whole unit values will not do this!

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 15 May 2012, 10:25

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T08:57:58+02:00

Iszh wrote:
yes i offer to add instead of shields which cybran dont have restoration fields to stealth cars rofl

serious if you want to make a faction stronger you should be first sure about that it is really weaker. i cant see this in 1v1 games. but if you really have to change something then mini changes. like increase the accuarcy of t1 arty of cybran a little bit. not more! the best is simply let it go on and stop changing to much. it is everything fine at the moment.

I would prefer an AOE buff for the medusa (2.5 from 2), making up for the lack of accuracy while preserving faction diversity. This would fit the Cybran arties in general (big AOE, lower damage and accuracy) and also improve its secondary ability (EMP) because it then has more chances to stun several units at the same time.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 15 May 2012, 08:57

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T08:46:32+02:00

yes i offer to add instead of shields which cybran dont have restoration fields to stealth cars rofl

serious if you want to make a faction stronger you should be first sure about that it is really weaker. i cant see this in 1v1 games. but if you really have to change something then mini changes. like increase the accuarcy of t1 arty of cybran a little bit. not more! the best is simply let it go on and stop changing to much. it is everything fine at the moment.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 15 May 2012, 08:46

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-15T07:55:39+02:00

-faction diversity +OPness in this case

It's a bad way to balance an alleged UP faction by making significantly OP some units of the same faction.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 15 May 2012, 07:55

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-14T18:50:28+02:00

Idea - give Cybran ACU much faster turn rate so it can turn to targets faster. Little buffs like this can improve faction diversity too/

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 14 May 2012, 18:50

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T10:44:17+02:00

A monkey is far more expensive than 5 percies. Yes i see what you are saying with buildtime but buildtime is rarley the limiting factor.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 05 May 2012, 10:44

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T10:43:33+02:00

To see it the other way around, if you can't use your early stage advantages to keep the UEF from using his advantages in lategame, then its fair if you have a hard time from then on?

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 05 May 2012, 10:43

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T10:26:13+02:00

Did you ever thought of stopping his wall of death attack before it even starts? By the time he as buid 5 Percys you have build one ML.

If the cybran tools for Mapcontorl or harassing his eco to delay the huge eco UEF needs for running highly assisted multiple fabs are not enough for you to stop him from getting a deathly percyival push, i dunno what you are doing wrong.

In the end there's only one advice: build more monkey lords and Air. If you cant defeat a Land push with that combo, you deserve a loss.

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 05 May 2012, 10:26

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T10:42:11+02:00

I can use cybran effectivley. I play ophir chasm a 40k map with the bases only 15 k apart with my friend all the time. We often both play cybran. I got 3 stealth tmls waitied till they had 3 missiles wach then sniped almost everything in his base. Or firebeetles. Yes done that a few times to him and now he keeps swarm by his commander at all times. How about the 5 facs behind my base and 100 or so mantis he got. He rolled right over it. I always have 1 or 2 decievers in my army and if my base is in radar range have a t2 stealthgen jist o make them have to scout more. I use stealth on commander to make him much harder to snipe.

So as you can see here i can play cybran the way they are ment to be played but if the other player is smart then he will force you into battles cybran cannot win. Tell me please how a cybran player can cost effectivley kill a UEF wall of death? That percies, Shields and flac. As its en route to my base i have to kill it. BuIi simply cannot do that cost effectively. There are many other things like this the cybran cant deal with. Many of them involve shields.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 05 May 2012, 10:08

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T04:51:51+02:00

My 2 cents

Before I even get started, this is simply my view, I don't want people trying to contradict my every word, Im just trying to bring to light a new angle to the conversation.

I believe (my opinion) UEF and sera are pretty much the same race. Aeon is slightly different. Cybran is way out there in left field.

I think people are trying to play cybrans as they would other races. That may work with UEF and sera, and to some extent aeon having the same play style, With cybrans it wont work. I hate to be this guy, But go on starcrap and try turtling with zerg like a Terran. It just doesn't work.

I played a series of games V.s. Nubfriedrice. We had a very nice series of 4 games and i saw things i have not seen a cybran player do in ages. I'm giving credit where its due. The early air and jester harass had me pulling out my hair on all four games. His mobile stealth land army had me sacrificing half my air units just to keep him from kiting me or sneaking down my blind side. He was using drops, harassing and stealth very well. It kept me on my toes and reminded me that THIS TIME, I WAS FACING A CYBRAN, not a UEF player in a cybran ACU.

People think cybran is underpowered now that as a community we have learned to combat some of the tactics that cybrans used so well. Now guess what. Now its time for cybrans to bring some new tricks to the table. I have never yet seen on FAF after about 100 games played (Besides Nubfriedrice) any cybrans use stealth TML launchers, jester harassing expanding engis, stealth in land armies, stealth baces, or even stealth drops behind enemy lines.

Do you guys have any idea what 2 decivers, 2 transports and a couple of fire beetles can do to the back of your bace? say good buy to your t2 power and mex. Have yet to see any cybran bright enough to use that trick. I made that up on the spot. Be creative. Thats what cybran is for, creativity.

The point I am trying to make is the fault lies mostly in the cybran commanders. Yes, they have week t2 PD, yes they have weak t1 arty. Every faction has their ups and downs. People are just trying to fight as cybrans the wrong way. They are trying to win battles the wrong way, with the wrong units and wrong play style.

The fault lies in you, as the commander. Not the faction.

Statistics: Posted by Cerberus — 05 May 2012, 04:51

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T00:37:52+02:00

The thing is, that even the people who play Cybran complain about their drawbacks..

Regarding bombers and jesters, I never thought of jesters in that way. T1 Bombers just do what they were always susposed to now, early engineer harassment, resource raiding etc. Jesters might have stepped up into that role while Bombers were priced out of ever being built, but I've always considered gunship niche as killing high value targets that you catch undefended, or stranded away from air defence. Like in this recent 2v2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yESVDhtAAj8

Transports take a long time to build, and deploy, time in which your opoonent is spamming Intys to win air control, making transports a bigger and bigger risk as time goes on, and giving your opponent longer to scout your base and give away the element of suprise. So more transport capacity, sooner, is of great importance. I can see concerns about the exploitation of what you consider bug (so the devs did intend it that way nooby?), but Cybran are an 'exceptional' race (their ships walk on land FFS) and Hoplites are a light - low armour unit, so its not such a strech I think. At very least we need at least standard T2 capacity.

THankyou for your post Jace, you seem very reasonable and on topic after 'debating' with Anaryl.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 05 May 2012, 00:37

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-05T00:14:32+02:00

The original devs came up with that idea and it was in the game intil after 3603 but the FAF devs "fixed" it for unknown reasons. They fixed something that was not broken and went against the cybran faction philosophy.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 05 May 2012, 00:14

Re: Is Cybran weak in general?

2012-05-04T23:20:59+02:00

Although he is right about the imba-cup. Such small numbers don't really proove anything. On top of that the chosen faction is mostly out of personal preferences.
On the contrary i could say: Look! These two people have chosen Cybran and play them successful. So its obviously a proof that they are not weak.

I also think there is a big difference in a gunship being overpowered and just outright impossible to use. Right now Jesters are just impossible to use, because Bombers were buffed like hell, completely overlooking other units.
You just have them back to the point of possible to use. I think that would already solve a lot of Cybran issues on complicatet maps, because they have something to irritate the enemy and get advantage out of it.

On the other hand i don't understand why some people come up with ideas that really upset the balance. I mean..... Hoplites which use just 1 spot in transports? Come on you have to see for yourself how crazy that idea is. That goes way over faction differences in terms of T1 and T2 Units.

And also: I don't see the problem of using multiple transports, you still just need one stealthGen because one can cover a few transports. So its not like you can't do bigger drops at all. You just have to build more transports like everyone else has to. Its not like you have to put a stealthGen into every transport.

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 04 May 2012, 23:20