Forged Alliance Forever

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T15:40:50+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
MAke the test in sbox and look closely at the torps . The sera destro wont stop them

Need to check with funk what he fixed though but there was definately an improvement somewhere

I just sandboxed it. Indeed, the anti torp weapon doesn't work. It fires once (and even then, i don't think it kills any torp) but after that strange fire animation, there is no anti torp anymore for the rest of the encounter. This indeed explains why it is weaker in actual games than it is supposed to be on paper.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Jan 2012, 15:40

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T15:41:39+02:00

The sera destroyer antitorp is still a bit random, also you can even with the improved antitorp spam t2 subs as aeon or cybran, they cost-effectivly defeat sera destroyer spam. There is nothing what the sera player can do against it, since the torp-bomber suck hard too.

But imo the navy rebalance funk suggested should come first, to make carrier and the sms useful.

Statistics: Posted by Karottenrambo — 13 Jan 2012, 15:40

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T15:14:41+02:00

MAke the test in sbox and look closely at the torps . The sera destro wont stop them

Need to check with funk what he fixed though but there was definately an improvement somewhere

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 13 Jan 2012, 15:14

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T15:05:49+02:00

Lu_Xun_17 wrote:
if we compare the T2 sera hoover tank with the blaze (t2 aeon hoover tank)
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XAL0203
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XSL0203

Sera Aeon
Buildtime 880 880 fine!
mass cost 220 220 fine!
dps 43 50 NOT fine!

For 2 really similar units , we have a 14% dps difference! which is a lot!

You didn't look thoroughly enough:
You forgot Range = 18 for Sera / 23 for Aeon but Sera has more HP, so it's ok.
+ no t2 hover shield for Seraphim.
That's why I think a 1 second reload weapon, 50 damages is good. It would give same DPS as Aeon Blaze hover tank, and it's different from all other T2 units' fire cycle (same as ACU actually, half DPS). It's the firing cycle that make the Yenzine a poor unit.

@ Cyth : fully agree. I didn't remember about the Sera Destroyer anti torp weapon not working properly. That might be just what it needs.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Jan 2012, 15:05

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:55:03+02:00

pip wrote:
They do have the worst gunship, even though they should have the best considering they have no Ghetto gunship, no T1 gunship and no t3 gunship. But, it's probably "faction diversity" : they need a so-so gunship, otherwise, they would be OP

It's nothing new that sera faction seems to have been rushed and unpolished/unfinished . I agree that no t3 gunship is soooooooooo annoying and kinda injustified. Torps are epic shit, bombers are so so (the t1 and strat being the worst when it comes to accuracy, the t2 are very average).

BTW last time I tried, Funk fixed some problems with the anti torps defense from the destro (It use to get owned mainly because the torps defense didnt work) and it was a close match of the cybran destro.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 13 Jan 2012, 14:55

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:40:55+02:00

if we compare the T2 sera hoover tank with the blaze (t2 aeon hoover tank)
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XAL0203
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XSL0203

Sera Aeon
Buildtime 880 880 fine!
mass cost 220 220 fine!
dps 43 50 NOT fine!

For 2 really similar units , we have a 14% dps difference! which is a lot!

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 13 Jan 2012, 14:40

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:30:46+02:00

They do have the worst gunship, even though they should have the best considering they have no Ghetto gunship, no T1 gunship and no t3 gunship. But, it's probably "faction diversity" : they need a so-so gunship, otherwise, they would be OP

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Jan 2012, 14:30

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:17:48+02:00

lol i just checked, that's a big mistake from me ^^
I must learn to read!

But i still think sera have the worst gunship xD

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 13 Jan 2012, 14:17

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:05:15+02:00

Lu_Xun_17 wrote:
==> BUT! seriously, the most important change to do is about T2 gunship :
All other factions have a 60 dps gunship (even cybrans), and the Sera one has a 30 DPS! for the same cost!
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XSA0203

it has 2 weapons of 30 dps each... so 60 dps in total

Statistics: Posted by Raging_Squirrel — 13 Jan 2012, 14:05

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:02:05+02:00

1) I don't know how powerfull the regen upgrade is atm, need to test it, but sure let's fix the bug!

2)sera chrono amplifier is a totally different upgrade than aeon chrono thing, but i think the current cost is fine (cause it can be doubled with the gun upgrade), and yes even if lazer cybran up is as expensive.

3) for faction diversity i would suggest to keep this slow rate of fire, but dps needs to be increased a little yes!

4) i remember some T1 subs tests: as 1sub vs 1 sub it was fine, but bigger the number was, and unbalanced the fight was. and the easier solution was to remove this anti torp and get same caracteristics as other T1 subs.

5) Or a T3 sonar which can move

6) i didn't know this, but yes it looks really important to change this!

==> BUT! seriously, the most important change to do is about T2 gunship :
All other factions have a 60 dps gunship (even cybrans), and the Sera one has a 30 DPS! for the same cost!
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/su ... bp=XSA0203

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 13 Jan 2012, 14:02

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T13:48:35+02:00

Hehe Lu Xun
What do you think of these 6 changes? Would they make Seraphim OP?

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Jan 2012, 13:48

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T13:46:22+02:00

We want a gunship T3!

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 13 Jan 2012, 13:46

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T13:43:03+02:00

You know what? Fine, let's assume no change is needed for the Sera Destroyer.

I updated my first post replacing this buff to Sera Destroyer with "ability for latest Tier Seraphim Sonar (t2) to move".

Still 6 simple changes.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Jan 2012, 13:43

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:14:49+02:00

...double post

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 13 Jan 2012, 12:21

Re: 6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

2012-01-13T14:15:07+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
In reality, as UEF player, you need to go frigates early to counter fobos. So you can't pour all that mass into subs.

The frigates are much more mass effective against the hover arties (i guess that's what u were referring to).

Sure you can use Coopers + Shield boats, but then you're pouring mass into a purely defensive counter. Plus Sera destroyers as mentioned have beam weapons, so they will rape Coopers. I think they perform pretty admirably against the other destroyers too.

Hum you need only a few coopers against the sera destro (if any). The destros plus shields do the job easy enough.

I don't request buff for sera at all, but sera before very late game is usually behind all the other navies, which is fine.
With the proper micro you can make up it. It's hard word though.

BTW you were talking about the defensive position of the coopers versus destros. Have you thought of the limited position of the biggest point of sera navy, the t3 subs ? They kick ass but can only do navy damage.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 13 Jan 2012, 12:18