Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2011-11-21T22:50:30+02:00 /feed.php?f=11&t=347 2011-11-21T22:50:30+02:00 2011-11-21T22:50:30+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3722#p3722 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
thygrrr wrote:
I like the idea of rehashing T2 mass fabs as a support structure. Maybe a volatile, but more efficient, alternative to Mass Storage around Mexes, or Energy Storage around PGens.

That said, does Energy Storage still have those abysmally useless adjacency bonuses?


Yes, but energy storage now provides +5000 storage for 250 mass (rather than 2000 for 120 mass) and I find them useful when using ACUs. I usually get at least 2 so I can OC twice before recharging... and in longer games where I try to get either ACU regen or shield upgrades, I get additional storages so it's easier to power-build those upgrades quickly and not worry about losing E.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 21 Nov 2011, 22:50


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2011-11-21T18:38:37+02:00 2011-11-21T18:38:37+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3714#p3714 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
lol. i dont like trurtling but i love bases exploding by mass farms explodes lol, thats cool

Statistics: Posted by Armmagedon — 21 Nov 2011, 18:38


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2011-11-19T14:38:37+02:00 2011-11-19T14:38:37+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3651#p3651 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
That said, does Energy Storage still have those abysmally useless adjacency bonuses?

Statistics: Posted by thygrrr — 19 Nov 2011, 14:38


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2011-11-05T20:36:25+02:00 2011-11-05T20:36:25+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3083#p3083 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
IF you put it at 2500 E as a base. Anyone can construct T3 Pgens at any location and T3 mass fabs at any other location.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 05 Nov 2011, 20:36


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2011-11-05T15:33:02+02:00 2011-11-05T15:33:02+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3068#p3068 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> T3 fabs upkeep 3500-2500
T3 fabs all build cost -20%
buildtime decrease for T2 fabs by half
T2 fabs hp increased to 600

This will mean T2 fabs are better if you have them singualy say 5 of them but t3 fabs are much better when you got a big massfarm

These are just changes I would like to see. They definitely break the 5% rule but I think in most game patches that is broken anyway. Look at Starcraft patch info. Most of those changes are 10% or more and some are even 50%

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 05 Nov 2011, 15:33


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2011-11-05T14:44:14+02:00 2011-11-05T14:44:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3066#p3066 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
noobymcnoobcake wrote:
What even was the purpose of massfabs in sc1? Were they to make the game more epic? To make games last longer? To break stalemates? Or were they just a mistake?

Given what happened to them in FA (t1->T2 and keepup cost 40E->150E), I'd say it's a mistake that's been over corrected a bit.

Although, only a bit. If it were not to be corrected enough, it'd be a viable thing now and as Uber said and then it'd be used instead of mexes.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 05 Nov 2011, 14:44


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2011-11-05T14:12:28+02:00 2011-11-05T14:12:28+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3065#p3065 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 05 Nov 2011, 14:12


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2011-11-05T13:47:04+02:00 2011-11-05T13:47:04+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3063#p3063 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 05 Nov 2011, 13:47


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2011-11-05T10:55:07+02:00 2011-11-05T10:55:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3057#p3057 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
I agree with V.

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
To T3 Mex only. T3 Mex are generally not used as they are so inefficient. These massfarms are highly volatile and a great target to snipe. Map control is still required to win the game. Massfarms require more space, more protection(shields that need constant energy and t3 shields are very expensive anyway), will blow up and leave no wreckage and have little hp, require more build time. T3 Mex will still be better but massfarms won't be not used at all. You will NOT see the sc1 massfarms but may occasionally se them in team games on larger maps. As I said makes the game slightly deeper and gives you new fun targets to kill and something to protect.


Impossible to balance such a thing. Either it's better than a T3 mex (and will be used exclusively) or is worse than a T3 mex (and will not be used).

At the highest levels of play, it's all about maximizing your return on investment. If it's possible to protect that fab farm at all (cough, shields) it will be used and abused. If it's impossible to protect, or less efficient than a T3 mex, it won't be used.

Simply put, the most efficient ways of managing your economy are already known. The T1-T2-storage-T3 formula was figured out long ago. If fabs are found to be more effective at any area of that (in this case, T3 mex's), they'll be used instead of T3 mex's. If they aren't, then we have the same "problem" that we have now - fabs won't be used as the tried-and-true mex's are a better value. There is no middle ground as high level players will always go for the most efficient way to maximize their return on investment to their economy.

Even more simply put: there can only be one shortest path to a destination. High level players will always find that path and take it. Your economy is the destination, paths are mex's or fabs.

One final nail in the coffin: I have yet to see even the largest teamgames make it to a point where you have upgraded every single mex to T3 and surrounded every single mex with storage and find yourself in need of more mass, to the point where you would need fab farms, even if they were only some small percent lower in efficiency than a surrounded T3 mex.

The only three places that I have ever seen fabs used are in:

1) Thermo. (no expansions aside from a trivial number of mex's in the middle)
2) NR. (again, no way to expand)
3) Survival. (I'm detecting a pattern..?)

Economy doesn't shoot. Units shoot. You win games by shooting things. If a game reaches the point where T4s are flying back and forth, it will only be a matter of time until something gives. There's simply too many ways to end a lategame game for there to ever be a deadlock where eco spamming will be more viable than unit spamming.



TLDR; FA is about expansion and territory control. If you don't like that go back to vanilla. ;)

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 05 Nov 2011, 10:55


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2011-11-05T10:10:51+02:00 2011-11-05T10:10:51+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3056#p3056 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 05 Nov 2011, 10:10


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2011-11-05T08:00:25+02:00 2011-11-05T08:00:25+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3054#p3054 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
So a lone massfab wont be nearly as efficient as a mex, but as you add more of them to an array, they become exponentially better.... but a single bomb will destroy the entire array.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 05 Nov 2011, 08:00


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2011-11-05T06:41:00+02:00 2011-11-05T06:41:00+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3053#p3053 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> Statistics: Posted by microwavelazer — 05 Nov 2011, 06:41


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2011-11-04T20:25:16+02:00 2011-11-04T20:25:16+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3040#p3040 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 04 Nov 2011, 20:25


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2011-11-04T20:13:33+02:00 2011-11-04T20:13:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3039#p3039 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]>
It should also be noted that the more viable we make T2 mass fabs the less viable expanding becomes. For that reason, I think a caped T3 mex should always be the more economically viable option.

On a side note, if were changing the T2 fabs so much how do we make T3 fabs useful without taking away from the T2 ones.

Statistics: Posted by microwavelazer — 04 Nov 2011, 20:13


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2011-11-04T19:33:57+02:00 2011-11-04T19:33:57+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=347&p=3037#p3037 <![CDATA[Re: Mass Fabricator Upgrading]]> Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 04 Nov 2011, 19:33


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