Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-08-20T19:49:38+02:00

How about giving them the ability to have some very nice ajacency bonuses to some things? might make them more usefull later game. like 50% E usage reduction for something touching one side of it. Could be usefull for producing interceptors early game and possibly some massfabs or shields later game.

Also with better ajacency bounuses for it you could "upgrade" it by adding storage around it. Lets say each storage makes it produce a nice amount more of energy (+50 each storage?) allowing for 700 power when its completely surrounded in storage. but dont forget thats 3160 mass that can be destroyed instantly by 2 T1 bombers and is not reclaimable. Also would kill everything around it. it would be more efficiently than t1 pgens but less efficient than t2 while being far more volatile and also giving you a ton of E storage.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 20 Aug 2012, 19:49

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-07-10T18:59:20+02:00

That's fine as well, but I dont think it's as necessarily cut-and-dry as you suggest.

If the choice is between combat structure vs. mex, then the "best" choice would depend on the situation and where the front line is etc.

If the choice is between a support structure vs. mex (like some sort of land repair tower, aircraft pad, etc) then it depends on your other units and whether they might benefit from it.

Intel structure vs. mex, again depends on the situation.

Factory vs. mex, not sure.

---------------------

In this case the player would need to evaluate the situation and/or his intended strategy/plan, and decide whether a special structure is worth the tradeoff of not having a mex there.

In a given situation, yes, there might be only one "correct" choice. In your eyes, does that mean there is no strategic choice?
To me, this is still interesting because the "correct" choices will vary from match to match, faction to faction, player to player, and even over the course of the same match, because the situation will change.

Especially if the special structures have fairly significant effects.
Eg. currently in some maps we have a race to the big reclaim in the centre, because its so important. What if getting to Hydro X or Mass Point Y first, and building a special PD or Intel Tower there first was important?
And what if there are several such objectives on the map, with different reasons for being important (and different structures that are useful to build on them), such that it's difficult to take them all first, and a choice needs to be made based on your intended strategy?

---------------------

Similar to my long-held criticism of, "We need more snipeable targets in SupCom other than the ACU", its more interesting and "crunchier" to have these sorts of pivotal events and locations in a match. As long as there are enough of them so that the map is multi-dimensional, I dont think it's a bad thing.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 10 Jul 2012, 18:59

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-07-10T18:08:36+02:00

AZ, that's a poor idea, to make existing structures gain bonuses from being built on mass deposits. This does not create a strategic choice because it will always be very simple to calculate where you'll get the most benefit, and it becomes a knowledge issue not a choice issue.

What would make choices, however, is if you could use mass points to build things other than mex, like a PD, but for cheap (100 mass for a mex PD). Then, the choice would be a short-term benefit of building the special structure for cheap versus the long-term benefit of collecting mass from a mex for a long time.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 10 Jul 2012, 18:08

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-07-10T16:20:10+02:00

Actually, here's an idea that will affect both Hydros and Massfabs. (I think TA had this in some form?)

What if map points (hydro and mass points) could be used for more than just resource generation?

Ideally we'd have some new structures to build on these points that do fancy things, but since we're nixing new units, instead we can give existing structures additional benefits when built on these points.

Factories could build more cheaply, missile silos could build faster, PDs gain increased damage, radar would gain omni, etc etc.

This makes things interesting especially when massfabs enter the picture - massfabs are inferior to mexes in terms of mass efficiency, but you might want to use them if you can build far more interesting things on mass points.

The hydro structure itself might be pretty quickly obsoleted in this scheme, tho. A solution might be - anything built adjacent to a hydro power plant, gains benefits as if it was build on the hydro point itself. So a hydro plant becomes a bit of a multiplier for hydro point bonuses.

I like the idea of map points becoming key strategic areas to fight over, even more important than merely economic structures. (especially hydro points, since they are so singular and rare.)

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 10 Jul 2012, 16:20

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-07-05T14:36:16+02:00

its not useless but its output is quite negligible compared to t3. But i dont think thats a problem. I dont think it needs a change either.

Its meant to be a "kick" starter for early game, nothing less and nothing more.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 05 Jul 2012, 14:36

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-07-05T02:18:00+02:00

Because this seems to need clarification the hydro plant is actually more efficient then a t3 power plant so you should always build it, yet most of you call it useless in the late game.

Statistics: Posted by Supreme321 — 05 Jul 2012, 02:18

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-06-03T10:30:52+02:00

I always liked this idea in theory, but besides the points people have already made, the major problem with this idea is that the Hydrocarbon spots are generaly in a safe area, very close to spawn points in your base, not on ground that has to be fought over. This means they would become basically a risk free energy boost, a bit like playing with x2 or the original Vanilla Sim City mass fabs. This in turn, as already noted, would upset the balance of alot of maps.
If all Hydro spots were in central / no mans land areas, like the wreckage on Setons and Isis, then I think upgradable hydros would be good, but as things stand, maybe not.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 03 Jun 2012, 10:30

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-06-02T20:41:30+02:00

My fear is that it will allow you to skip t2 power or something. And those gunships, acu upgrades, and t3 land will come out much faster as less infastructure will be needed to support them.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 02 Jun 2012, 20:41

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-06-02T19:37:58+02:00

Is it just me or is this forum slightly more volatile than others? Not that internet forums aren't simmering at a standard.

Anyways, here's my two cents: I like this idea, but it would need to be perfect to be used.

The point of an upgradeable Hydrocarbon PGen would be to add more stress to map control. Suddenly, even in T3, hydrocarbon points become incredibly valueable, as they dish out more energy than T3 reactors for noteably less cost, and may even allow you to temporarily bypass building a T3 PGen to begin building T3 tech.

Overall, it's a good idea, but only if it REQUIRES map control and strategic planning to be effective, and it must be effective.

Otherwise, it's just a waste of work.

Statistics: Posted by MushrooMars — 02 Jun 2012, 19:37

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-06-01T18:16:42+02:00

GUYS GUYS!

We just take the useless t3 stationary artillery and make it into a t2 Hydro? ITS GOING TO BE AMAZING!

On serious thought i would endorse this idea in a thought out solution. Having a little extra e-boost before going for a tech would certainly help. But since this is actually balanced early game we are talking about, this needs to be extra balanced out. Don't f*** up "early game" for this.

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 01 Jun 2012, 18:16

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2012-06-01T14:57:48+02:00

Frozen_byte wrote:
That mod is really buggy and imbalanced...
Played a few times with it and there was never made any balance changes.

Yeah that mod is broken. Seras hydro dont even produce energy. As for balance well, Kinda not a strong point for that mod.

there is a mod for manufacturing plants. The model is still there as its civilian. But These cost 12k mass and can be built on hydrocarbon deposits. They are like T3 factories but have INSANE build power. ASF in about 3 seconds.

However I don't really want these changes put into the game. Just leave it as it is.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 01 Jun 2012, 14:57

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2011-10-10T23:33:42+02:00

That mod is really buggy and imbalanced...
Played a few times with it and there was never made any balance changes.

Statistics: Posted by Frozen_byte — 10 Oct 2011, 23:33

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2011-10-10T19:53:26+02:00

You know just like the Q gate idea why not just test it... There's already at least one upgradable HC mod out there.

Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 10 Oct 2011, 19:53

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2011-10-10T08:08:44+02:00

You should look at Experimental Wars threads

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=224

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 10 Oct 2011, 08:08

Re: Upgradeable Hydro

2011-10-10T00:53:44+02:00

Would it be a crime give the hydrocarbon a buff to 250 and make it more expensive? (like TA's geothermals).

and yes I'd love a water base mod, would give me TA nostalgia and a desire to make navy maps.

Statistics: Posted by BlackFish — 10 Oct 2011, 00:53