Re: T2 land units weaknesses

2012-08-26T14:27:07+02:00

All T2 land is missing is a decent factory. Double the buildpower of T2 fac and T3 fac *4 and it cost only slightly more for a fac than engineers. T2 land will actually be seen because you don't have to have 20 engineers to even think about upgrading. T2 land is very mass cost effective against T1 but engineer spam is the only thing holding it back from the field. Engineer spam is counter productive to many aspects of the game.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 26 Aug 2012, 14:27

T2 land units weaknesses

2012-08-23T11:12:03+02:00

From watching highly competitive matches between Zock and Lu Xun (replays package attached here), I came to realize that t2 land units are currently not appealing enough in the game. T2 tech is very useful because structures and defenses are very efficient, but t2 land units are lacking something. You can defend against t3 land with t2 defenses, but you cannot defeat a t3 small force with a medium size force t2 army. The gap is bigger between t3 troops and t2 ones than between t1 and t2.
All in all, it seems better to build t1 land units and ACU upgrades for direct fights, raiding, getting map control and t2 defenses (with occasional MML to wear off shields), and save your mass in order to fast upgrade to t3 land units, rather than building t2 tanks to get map control (or attacking an ACU = big mistake). It's more cost efficient to raid and get map control with t1 units or t3 units.

There are 2 main problems in my opinion : lack of speed of t2 core troops and the fact that t3 land factory and t3 engineering suit are too easy to get.

Issue 1: t2 back bone units (rhino, pillars, Obisdians, Ilshavoh) are too slow since 3603.

They are perfectly balanced towards t1 in terms of strength and HP, but they really lack speed.
Comparison of 3599 (on the left) and 3603-3618 (on the right) speeds:
Rhino and Pillar : 3.3 / 2.7
Obsidian : 3 / 2.6
Ilshavoh : 2.9 / 2.5

For reference, a UEF t1 tank has 3.4 speed, and a Mantis 3.7.

I think the speed reductions were a wrong move for multiple reasons:
1) when you attack with a mixed force of t1 and t2, t2 will be late. You cannot raid with them efficiently. By the time you reach a mass spot, your opponent can finish a walled t1 pd. So you end up taking the spot with t1 arties, and not really t2 army. Also, t1 tanks speeds were increased, so the gap is now really big compared to 3599. Nobody ever complained that t2 land units were too fast, this was a change that hasn't been thoroughly thought through;
2) if you send t2 main units towards the enemy base, they are slow so he can react and build t2 pd. This makes turtling at t2 easier than attacking;
3) the lack of speed also makes it easier to upgrade to t3 factory for the defender (he has time to do it then retaliate with a few Titans or Loyalists, or Harbingers;
4) the lack of speed makes it easier for an ACU to overcharge t2 units. Setting ACU overcharge to 3.3 seconds may be a good choice for dynamic gameplay, but it screws t2 units really badly. Giving some speed back to t2 land units would at least give them a chance to escape an ACU, and raid more efficiently.

Issue 2: Upgrading to t3 land factory seems too easy, inciting players to skip t2 land units alltogether.
T2 wars would last longer if the t3 land factory costed a bit more, like 1000 more mass. T3 air factory and t3 engy suit would have to be adjusted as well (+1000 mass), in order to prevent the predominance of fast t3 air factories or fast experimentals.
Naval yards already got their cost upped to +2000 mass, for the exact same reason, so they are not a concern here. I think it works pretty well to fix the exact same issue.

So, TLDR, in order to make t2 land units more appealing, I would suggest to give them back their 3599 speeds, and upping the cost of t3 land and air factories and t3 suit by 1000 mass.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 23 Aug 2012, 11:12

Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T2 land units weaknesses

T2 land units weaknesses