Forged Alliance Forever

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-26T14:29:28+02:00

Myxir wrote:
a probably better solution would be to give full mass ( 52 ) but take stored energy which is missing, if you don't have the energy you also can't sacrifice

Agree.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 26 Aug 2012, 14:29

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-24T16:00:06+02:00

Hi guys,

Myxir wrote:
a probably better solution would be to give full mass ( 52 ) but take stored energy which is missing, if you don't have the energy you also can't sacrifice

Sounds good ... at least energy storage will have a good reason to be build not only for the OC's sake

Regards

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 24 Aug 2012, 16:00

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-22T19:36:58+02:00

A full mass transfer (1:1) assumes the donor unit was built solely for the purpose of sacrifice. In reality, the sacrificed units likely delivered value to the player before making their ultimate contribution. A 1:1 donation would negate that and overpower the feature.

Statistics: Posted by HEAVY — 22 Aug 2012, 19:36

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-22T09:34:45+02:00

Myxir wrote:
a possible solution for this would be to check how much mass/energy your 'target' costs and add your mass/energy related to that

example
aeon t1 engie costs 52 mass and 260 energy, means energy/mass = 5
if you sacrifice to a landfac (240m, 2100e, e/m = 8.75) you will add the energy value of your engie because the fac has a higher energy per mass cost
means you add 260 energy to the fac and ( 52*5 / 8.75 ) = 30 mass to the fac

a probably better solution would be to give full mass ( 52 ) but take stored energy which is missing, if you don't have the energy you also can't sacrifice
in this case, it'd take ( 260*8.75 / 5 ) = 455 energy, which is 195 more than an engie is made of ( means 195e cost per sacrifice into a t1 factory)

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 22 Aug 2012, 09:34

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-20T14:53:42+02:00

Hi guys,

There is a SacrificeEnergyMult = 0.6
It doesn't work in the way you explain it .... the energy also comes into account. It's not like you snap the energy cost. I tested it back to 3599.
I thought at the beginning that is was a matter to compensate the lack of build power of aeon at late games like uef and cybryan have.

Also another problem is when you give the order to sacrifice and a big amount of engies are there they take a while before really sacrifice themselves.

Regards

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 20 Aug 2012, 14:53

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-20T13:15:21+02:00

The point of the weakness of sacrifice is not the energy cost, but it is the multiplier for the construction that the unit is sacrificed to. I'm assuming (since there is no one objecting) that there will be a buff to 0.9 (or even 1), this will make stuff that requires a lot of energy and little mass very cheap. That is where the energy increase can be applied because at that point a cost of 2500 E is absolutely nothing.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 20 Aug 2012, 13:15

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-19T16:12:44+02:00

It already considered energy cost since the big nerf back in GPG days. Less theorycrafting and more testing in game to know what you're talking about.

Statistics: Posted by Varaxis — 19 Aug 2012, 16:12

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-19T14:16:50+02:00

a possible solution for this would be to check how much mass/energy your 'target' costs and add your mass/energy related to that

example
aeon t1 engie costs 52 mass and 260 energy, means energy/mass = 5
if you sacrifice to a landfac (240m, 2100e, e/m = 8.75) you will add the energy value of your engie because the fac has a higher energy per mass cost
means you add 260 energy to the fac and ( 52*5 / 8.75 ) = 30 mass to the fac

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 19 Aug 2012, 14:16

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-19T13:58:55+02:00

Since sacrifice basically skips the energy cost, you could give the upgrade itself a low mass cost and a high energy cost.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 19 Aug 2012, 13:58

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-19T12:10:06+02:00

Sac was nerfed some time before 3599, since it was adding mass to the unit under construction, but in the case of something that required a great deal of energy to also build, you were getting a discount on the energy part. IE. RAS upgrade.

They also tweaked the multi and it pretty much wasn't smart to use it since. Even after, it's still just better to reclaim your engineers or something else nearby. The only times I've tried using it since, is when the enemy is incoming and the engineers are about to die anyways, to quickly build a shield or something, and I am severely disappointed in it each time.

Statistics: Posted by Varaxis — 19 Aug 2012, 12:10

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-19T11:23:50+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
It should be 1 actually :-/

well you have to consider both that you lose an engineer and that you have something build nearly instantly.
Which is more important? If building something instantly is quite an advantage in some situations that is the reason for the multiplier to be lower than 1. it could be increased though to 0.9 for a start imo

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 19 Aug 2012, 11:23

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-17T11:43:57+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
It should be 1 actually :-/

Nice to see that sometime we can agree on something ... worth to have faith in humanity

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 17 Aug 2012, 11:43

Re: aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-17T11:34:52+02:00

It should be 1 actually :-/

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Aug 2012, 11:34

aeon sacrifice ability

2012-08-17T11:31:21+02:00

Hi Guys,

The sacrifice ability that aeon have is almost never used ... except sometime on SACU with teloport for instant build what actually happen only on late turtling game like thermo ....

I take a look to the blueprint of engineers

...
SacrificeEnergyMult = 0.6,
SacrificeMassMult = 0.6,
...

This is extremely low ... 60 % mean absolutely nothing.

A higher value like at least 80% could be used instead to at least be worth be used

Regards

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 17 Aug 2012, 11:31