Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-22T06:33:09+02:00

vongratz wrote:
"Why don't we have the same need for refuel with ships and tanks/bots ?
Not sure they should run on infinite energy then"
This would be a patch nightmare, and a game f... ed melée.
Also we need to spend resources in amunition/refuel vehicles...

Fair enough, but then we should avoid using "IRL logic" for those ideas, it can't be half half if it's based upon IRL facts.

I really feel the air needing to get refueled is some imbalanced bs, but it's not so much of a problem (now) considering you will usually lose the plane before it gets out of fuel (mercies being an obvious exception), so no biggie.

But if you were about to put some ridiculous small autonomy time to planes, then do so for boats and land too. It would only make sense and be fair. You could imagine sparkies building some outfront structures to refuel the tanks, same kind of thing for boats. They could also provide repair on the battlefield. The air stages are much more interesting for their ability to low cost repairs than for their refueling ability.

This topic overall seems to be something motivated by the lazyness of people who hate to have to defend against air and want to nerf it as much as possible. Not surprised though, I just wonder where will it stop

Honestly it's much much much easier to defend against a loss on air than a loss on navy for instance. Navy is SO powerful and much more resistant, there's no comparison. Obviously strats bombing, bla bla, very powerful at sniping stuff.

But navy erase entire bases, can't stop it, just hold for a while until the turtle breaks ultimately. The investment you put in it remains in opposition to bombers which often have only a few shots at the target.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 22 May 2012, 06:33

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-22T03:26:35+02:00

Explaining better.
The diference of limit I talk is the follow:
In RTS Spring, on patrol to a determinate point, before the point of non return, the plane get back to his base, in the supcomm the planes continues the "mission" as they dont care about the return.

Statistics: Posted by vongratz — 22 May 2012, 03:26

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-22T03:22:15+02:00

"Why don't we have the same need for refuel with ships and tanks/bots ?
Not sure they should run on infinite energy then"
This would be a patch nightmare, and a game f... ed melée.
Also we need to spend resources in amunition/refuel vehicles...

In RTS Spring, heavily based on the mother of Supcomm, the TA, the planes , when without fuel, after being forced to a non return trip, landed and stay there.Otherwise, if not forced, they would return to the base automatically to refuel/repair/remunition, and that also happens in SupComm, but not exactly in the same limit.

The SUPCOMM solution is better for a game, as the planes, VERY slowly, can return to the bases, or land and wait for an "en passant" carrier or a staging facility that could be built in that island.
Reduce the range of the planes would be a worse solution for this.IMHO

Statistics: Posted by vongratz — 22 May 2012, 03:22

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-21T07:47:00+02:00

i dont see any benefit in this change? for what reason should this happen?
it just makes air less efficient and u need to have a closer look at it. so it makes it more complex - but for what? is it fun to have a stopwatch near ur screen to know when the planes run out of fuel? wtf? it is anoying in my opinion.
i think as it is right now, it is fine.

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 21 May 2012, 07:47

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-21T03:39:55+02:00

Why don't we have the same need for refuel with ships and tanks/bots ?
Not sure they should run on infinite energy then

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 21 May 2012, 03:39

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-21T03:18:22+02:00

Did a refuel aircraft possible in SupComm FA?
Ive tried this idea since the TA, and it worked, but unfortunatelly with a bug.
In TA the "replenishment" was nano-repair

Statistics: Posted by vongratz — 21 May 2012, 03:18

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-21T00:10:24+02:00

hm i think limiting only asf range of operation would cut the others too, because they can't really operate over enemy territory without asf protection anyway.

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 21 May 2012, 00:10

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T22:17:45+02:00

Thing is, are the other types of air a problem? They are all vulnerable and expensive. Its ASF spam thats the problem.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 20 May 2012, 22:17

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T21:13:12+02:00

I agree with Jase this should apply to more then just ints and superiority fighters. I think, globally, T1 air should have more fuel then t3 air. T1 bombers have more fuel then t3. T2 air craft can probably be left unchanged maybe a slight reduction but T2 air should be a middle ground in terms of fuel times. The reason for this is that I don't think the point of this is to Nerf the ASF (which I feel is the direction a lot of people are going with this) I think the point is to change how aircraft scale up on larger maps.

Takes Shards for example right now. If you play as the back player to rush to T3 air and 15+ T3 bombers over an enemies base some 20 kl away. This is the problem. Right now T3 air can go every where and just by there very nature can get there faster then any other unit can. I think the point is to make it so having an air presence far away from your base is more difficult and require some kind of support. whether it be a carrier or an expansion base.

Statistics: Posted by microwavelazer — 20 May 2012, 21:13

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T17:53:31+02:00

Good idea, i would even go down to 3min for Ints, Bombers and Gunnies.
So you can't dominate someone with air only without having the slightest bit of ground control nearby. You would need a RefuelStation near.

I would leave Transports and Scouts out of that, for obvious reasons.

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 20 May 2012, 17:53

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T17:09:18+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
On the RL aspect of the fuel time: how long can bombers go without refueling?

Although they are currently out of service, the Unit States had a strategic nuclear bomber during the cold war that could, un-refueled, fly from the US to Moscow. Nowadays in a fuel-conscious military that tries to conserve it (the more fuel you carry, the more fuel you waste carrying your fuel... so most carry as little as possible) about 10 hours of flight at around 500 knots... so that's a range of 2,500 miles (remember that IRL the plan on coming home too).

I heard that the initial Iraq assault by B52 bombers came al the way from Great Britain.

This occurred with the help of aerial refueling... something oddly missing in FA :-p

okay worked out the range of each aircraft with current fuel times. I have not done transports as they do not need to be changed.
air scout-------------200k
Interceptor----------90k
bomber--------------78k

This should be swapped... bomber 200k, int 78 k, scout 90k

gunship--------------95k
fighter bomber------150k
torpedo bomber-----175k
Swift wind------------175k
Mercy------------------21.45k----Keep this as it is

Only thing needing change here is nerf to the swift wind... 100k

spy plane--------------1500k
ASF---------------------490k
Strategic bomber------500k
gunship-----------------125k
Torpedo bomber-------468k
Restorer----------------121k

Here, the ASF should get a reduction to 200k and the spy plane to 700k

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 20 May 2012, 17:09

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T13:29:24+02:00

But if they are patrolling around your base, they are right over your staging facs.

Keep all the specialized planes, torp bombers, bombers, gunship etc higher than ASF. Make T1 - T2 fighters longer than ASF so they remain usefull for a bit longer as already suggested also.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 20 May 2012, 13:29

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T13:31:19+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
I think we should mostly look at the distance a unit is able to cover with it: ASFs go way faster than bombers so with less fuel they could still cover the same (if not more) distance than a bomber.

okay worked out the range of each aircraft with current fuel times. I have not done transports as they do not need to be changed.
air scout-------------200k
Interceptor----------90k
bomber--------------78k

gunship--------------95k
fighter bomber------150k
torpedo bomber-----175k
Swift wind------------175k
Mercy------------------21.45k----Keep this as it is

spy plane--------------1500k
ASF---------------------490k
Strategic bomber------500k
gunship-----------------125k
Torpedo bomber-------468k
Restorer----------------121k

So how about giving all fighters 60k range and bombers/gunships 100k? this means a halfway refuel base/carrier will be required for an attack on a 41k map and advisable on a 20k.

At the moment for ASF fuel time is more important than range because you have them patrolling around your base. I like this feature. We should not reduce fuel time so much that this does not become a viable option. However perhaps we will see them kept on the ground until they are needed in some cases.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 20 May 2012, 13:21

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T13:38:09+02:00

No no, well not this time

That's why I said

You will try things as you please anyway,

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 20 May 2012, 13:19

Re: Reduce all air fuel time to 5 mins

2012-05-20T12:00:27+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
just asking once again in my mind, why people are still changing things that don't need to be changed

Forum rules
REMINDER : This is NOT a community balance forum. The thread ideas won't be used in a patch.

You really have problems with not reading that (it's on top of every post in this forum)

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 20 May 2012, 12:00