Forged Alliance Forever

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-18T02:09:47+02:00

we all know what cause t1 spam, but I dont see the problem, actually is pretty well balanced, why want change it?
you should think about the t2 gunships that still OP lol

Statistics: Posted by Armmagedon — 18 May 2012, 02:09

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T18:07:21+02:00

Overcharge / DGun is useful as an anti-rush mechanic, though. Noob SC matches where 2-3 early units will win you the game by preventing the enemy from building any combat units are no fun.

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Personally, I've always wished for T2 spam. I would have been quite happy for T1 to work a bit like LABs - useful in the very early game, but quickly obsoleted. The "spam or tech" decision would be between T2 versus T3/4.

Rather than a linear progression of efficiency between tech levels, I would have been happier if T2 was more favoured, because it seems like the tech level where the options really open up. (shields, stealth, MMLs, TMLs, TMDs, amphib units, gunships, etc.)

I guess for this to happen, we need to incentivise people to build lots of T2 factories. I guess making the T2 upgrade much cheaper (and possibly making the T3 upgrade more expensive to compensate). Plus boosting the build power of T2 factories and engineers.

But yeah, this is describing quite a different game from FA.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 17 May 2012, 18:07

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T14:31:51+02:00

Have you lost from sight that the COMMANDER is supposed to be an EPIC unit, super powerful. The former D-GUN which used to kill ANY unit in one shot (krogoth ) has been nerfed already into that OC way less powerful.

MY only relief is that this will very unlikely be integrated in some attempt to a "better" balance.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 17 May 2012, 14:31

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T14:22:42+02:00

Pavese wrote:
Its never going to happen, dont worry. It will be as stupid OP as ever.

OC is just bad game design... you're right though, it could have fit in okay if it were an upgrade or tier'd somehow

OP: allowing lower tech factories to assist or simpy buffing build rate on higher tech factories is an excellent idea - in all you need to balance the factory assist is something like an assist radius around the factory - thus allowing it to only assist factories within said radius. The one thing you'd have to watch out for is factories assisting factories that are assisting higher tech factories, but that can be balance the same way as with engineer, require them to be in range of the assisted project (in this case the high tech factory) - otherwise they do nothing. Voila, no chains of T1 factories defending your T2 Factory in the back and producing all your units in the front.

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 17 May 2012, 14:22

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T12:40:23+02:00

Its never going to happen, dont worry. It will be as stupid OP as ever.

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 17 May 2012, 12:40

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T12:26:51+02:00

OMG.
OC is a CORE SIGNATURE OF the TA/SC/FA, what you're suggesting is an heresy. It has already been nerfed from the TA times.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 17 May 2012, 12:26

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T11:42:27+02:00

Gowerly wrote:
My issue with t2 rushing is the Overcharge.

If you have t1 spam, an overcharge is going to kill... 1-5 T1 units, which isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.
If you add t2 into it, an overcharge is going to kill 1-2 T2 units, which is a much greater loss.

The risks involved a T2 rush are much greater than they are with T1 spam for that reason. Yes, you can try to avoid the ACU with your T2 units, but that will drastically reduce the power of your main army should they clash.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't change how OC works (except maybe put it back to 5 second recharge time), so that's just one of the risks with T2/T3 rushing.

OC is just one good example of bad game design.

Dealing 12k splash damage for no real cost on a t1 stage is total overkill and kills tech way to easy.

Imo the only way to "balance" would be to make it cost, like in the form of a upgrade, and give the normal ACU a T1 "OC" that does 500 damag to everything and requires a e-storage. 500 Damage for OC would be enough imo.

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 17 May 2012, 11:42

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T11:04:38+02:00

My issue with t2 rushing is the Overcharge.

If you have t1 spam, an overcharge is going to kill... 1-5 T1 units, which isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.
If you add t2 into it, an overcharge is going to kill 1-2 T2 units, which is a much greater loss.

The risks involved a T2 rush are much greater than they are with T1 spam for that reason. Yes, you can try to avoid the ACU with your T2 units, but that will drastically reduce the power of your main army should they clash.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't change how OC works (except maybe put it back to 5 second recharge time), so that's just one of the risks with T2/T3 rushing.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 17 May 2012, 11:04

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T10:00:18+02:00

Forum rules
REMINDER : This is NOT a community balance forum. The thread ideas won't be used in a patch.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 May 2012, 10:00

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-17T05:57:23+02:00

eXivo wrote:
I do however think you're forcing the changes a bit too much, changes just for the sake of changing will get us nowhere. FA is a unique game, no need to make it even more unique. But we could make it as a mod at 1st and see how it goes and how accepted it gets, just like we did with the original 3603 patch.

this

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 17 May 2012, 05:57

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-16T22:07:18+02:00

Don't get me wrong funky, i have no problems with your unique ideas. Just saying that even though i agree that t2 and t3 need a slight buff, we shouldn't eliminate t1 spam, else we'll just change it back to vanilla sup com where t2 rush was the only strat more or less.

Other then that i really like your adjacency ideas, and given all the genius programmers here, i doubt it to be too much of a problem to make it a reality. But if we buff the build power to the point of t1, then it would basically move the spam a tier up and we'd achieve nothing, we'd have t2 spams with 100+ unit t2 armies, just like the current t1 ones, and the counter would be t3 etc.

But making t2 fac spam worth it mass-wise would be cool indeed, just please don't wreck the game with these experiments.

I do however think you're forcing the changes a bit too much, changes just for the sake of changing will get us nowhere. FA is a unique game, no need to make it even more unique. But we could make it as a mod at 1st and see how it goes and how accepted it gets, just like we did with the original 3603 patch.

Statistics: Posted by eXivo — 16 May 2012, 22:07

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-16T21:47:15+02:00

I like the spam mechanic, it does make for some awesome battles sometimes and not just groups of 8-12 heavily microed higher tech units. I like the scale and I like the macro. But T2 and T3 factories do need a buff

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 16 May 2012, 21:47

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-16T19:42:38+02:00

So, what are you looking for? Instant unlock any "high-tech" stuff by just making some kinda research somewhere? And use the existing factories to producing it than; with the current available Build-Power?

Statistics: Posted by Koecher — 16 May 2012, 19:42

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-16T19:23:03+02:00

eXivo wrote:
But to counter about 90% of funk's arguments: t1 spam might have awesome mass ratios and what not, but, u have to consider that an equal mass worth of t2 units pretty much pwns t1 ones. Even more so if microed

That doesn't counter my arguments at all. Here is a rough summary of the advantages of T1 spam versus T2 land:
T2 land:
-Slightly stronger units/structures
T1 land:
-No tech costs
-Rapidly-construct-able infrastructure

T1 land has 2 enormous strengths compared to T2 land's one. T2 should be limited only by the tech cost, and should not also be limited by slowness is constructing the build power to make it.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 16 May 2012, 19:23

Re: What causes T1 spam

2012-05-16T18:57:31+02:00

I kinda like the idea of increasing higher tier fac's build power, it would make building multiple facs viable and balance the factions even further, yes i mean the sera bumper cars in phantom games and the such.

But to counter about 90% of funk's arguments: t1 spam might have awesome mass ratios and what not, but, u have to consider that an equal mass worth of t2 units pretty much pwns t1 ones. Even more so if microed

Statistics: Posted by eXivo — 16 May 2012, 18:57