Forged Alliance Forever

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-25T13:16:36+02:00

welder wrote:
No, not really. RTS stands for Real Time Strategy. And that is exactly what I'm looking for. A game in which the consequences of strategic decisions evolve in real time. I don't have any opposition to "some" micro. But I do like having the option to ignore micro in order to concentrate on strategic play. Since the most limiting factor in real time strategy is attention span I think it is possible to counter an opponent who is very attentive to micromanaging with better tactical and strategic play. I do think Forged Alliance accommodates this better than a lot of other games in this genre. But I do not necessarily like the fact that a certain choice in opening gameplay can force your opponent into a micromanagement stance. Just a philosophical viewpoint. But I'll live with it.

Is it not a strategy to keep your engineers apart? It's just a few more clicks.
E1 -> Move command -> AA on edge of build radius
E2 -> Move command other side of where AA will be -> Assist E1
E3 -> Move command somewhere different again -> Assist E1 or E2

From there the bomber will need multiple passes.

At no point has a good general thought "Well, whatever, just all go to the same place it'll be fine" and won anything.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 25 May 2012, 13:16

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-25T08:25:23+02:00

u didnt micro at all. no micro was needed to beat this. sorry a true plan was, which neither player had one so one got lucky that is what i see here.

strategic moves when first seeing the bomber would have stopped the need for micro . enough AA QUICKER. + a radar + strategic postioning of all of your engines BEHIND the turret that is not micro , also another strategy u can do is to NOT make so many engines but u did. that is another failure in your strategy vs bomber first.

Id keep going but. B4 there is more to truely say one must first fix the basics.

Statistics: Posted by Pic — 25 May 2012, 08:25

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-18T06:27:07+02:00

AdmiralZeech wrote:
welder wrote:
noobymcnoobcake wrote:No its that if you have multiple engineers assisting a building make them assist it from different sides by ordering a move order first.

Which is again what I would consider micro.

Yeah, I get it. Micro is where it's at. I just don't like it. I would prefer to rely on tactics and strategy to try and win games rather than just being able to click faster and point individual units in different directions. Just one man's opinion. Of course I only play the game for fun.

Whilst I agree with you in principle, ultimately SupCom is an RTS which means there will always be some micro.
You're looking for Turn based strategy. (although that has its own form of micro, ie. tweaking settings and setups etc.)

No, not really. RTS stands for Real Time Strategy. And that is exactly what I'm looking for. A game in which the consequences of strategic decisions evolve in real time. I don't have any opposition to "some" micro. But I do like having the option to ignore micro in order to concentrate on strategic play. Since the most limiting factor in real time strategy is attention span I think it is possible to counter an opponent who is very attentive to micromanaging with better tactical and strategic play. I do think Forged Alliance accommodates this better than a lot of other games in this genre. But I do not necessarily like the fact that a certain choice in opening gameplay can force your opponent into a micromanagement stance. Just a philosophical viewpoint. But I'll live with it.

Statistics: Posted by welder — 18 May 2012, 06:27

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-17T18:14:16+02:00

welder wrote:
noobymcnoobcake wrote:No its that if you have multiple engineers assisting a building make them assist it from different sides by ordering a move order first.

Which is again what I would consider micro.

Yeah, I get it. Micro is where it's at. I just don't like it. I would prefer to rely on tactics and strategy to try and win games rather than just being able to click faster and point individual units in different directions. Just one man's opinion. Of course I only play the game for fun.

Whilst I agree with you in principle, ultimately SupCom is an RTS which means there will always be some micro.
You're looking for Turn based strategy. (although that has its own form of micro, ie. tweaking settings and setups etc.)

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 17 May 2012, 18:14

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-16T05:20:39+02:00

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
No its that if you have multiple engineers assisting a building make them assist it from different sides by ordering a move order first.

Which is again what I would consider micro.

Yeah, I get it. Micro is where it's at. I just don't like it. I would prefer to rely on tactics and strategy to try and win games rather than just being able to click faster and point individual units in different directions. Just one man's opinion. Of course I only play the game for fun.

Statistics: Posted by welder — 16 May 2012, 05:20

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-14T18:23:32+02:00

No its that if you have multiple engineers assisting a building make them assist it from different sides by ordering a move order first.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 14 May 2012, 18:23

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T17:24:02+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
welder wrote: But there is a certain silliness in having to engage in this kind of engineer-dodging micro. I

doging micro ? Really ? All you had to do is not NOT send the 2 last engineer to help the first 2, or make them go a little further away. I don't call that "dodging" or even "micro".

While this is true, the purpose of my sending the 2 last engineers to help the first 2 was to complete the AA turret before the bomber came back around for another pass, and then have them assist the hydo. So after they had completed the turret I would have to go and select each one individually and send them off in different directions so as to not get hit by the bomber and then have them reconvene on the hydro. I really thought that with a mobile AA and a turret both completed that this would have taken care of a single bomber.

I guess the takeaway is don't have multiple engineers assisting one structure at the start of the game until you are sure your opponent is not bomber rushing or you have a bunch of AA out.

Statistics: Posted by welder — 13 May 2012, 17:24

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T14:41:16+02:00

T1 stationary AA is great. Mobile misses so much but the stationary can kill t3 bombers if it is shielded. Great to have just a few in your base to stop them sending intie swarm over to get air supremacy. I will have stationary AA in my base quite soon into the game as a bomber can only get 1 pass.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 13 May 2012, 14:41

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T13:37:26+02:00

mhmm, perhaps you're right - like I've mentioned before I took a pretty long hiatus right before FA came out and now I'm relearning a few things. So still going through the readjustment period on how I feel about some unit dynamics.

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 13 May 2012, 13:37

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T13:32:00+02:00

Stationary T1 AA is excellent. One can stop a single T2 gunship and survive, and small groups of them will massacre any air that happens to wander too close.

Look at any top player's base in the lategame. It will usually be littered with stationary T1 AAs because they are so useful throughout the entire game.

Is it the proper counter for bomber first? No. Two mobile AAs and a scout will get the job done cheaper, better, and faster.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 13 May 2012, 13:32

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T13:21:07+02:00

tbh I think this is just more a commentary on the fact that T1AA is so silly right now that it takes 4 engineers to build it even moderately quickly, and even then its a major drain on early resources. I know T1 Mobile AA counters T1 air extremely well, but it already has the advantage of being mobile - what's the point to T1 AA if it's a guaranteed waste of resources (as opposed to its use in SupCom Vanilla to counter early rushes).

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 13 May 2012, 13:21

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T12:21:23+02:00

welder wrote:
But there is a certain silliness in having to engage in this kind of engineer-dodging micro. I

doging micro ? Really ? All you had to do is not NOT send the 2 last engineer to help the first 2, or make them go a little further away. I don't call that "dodging" or even "micro".

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 13 May 2012, 12:21

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-13T01:02:21+02:00

welder wrote:
uberge3k wrote:That actually shows how terribly ineffective bomber first is...

Yes I could have spread my engs out after building the AA turret. But there is a certain silliness in having to engage in this kind of engineer-dodging micro.

So you have 2 choices. The "silly" choice that will win you the game or the thing you did that will lose you the game.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 13 May 2012, 01:02

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-12T17:01:28+02:00

uberge3k wrote:
That actually shows how terribly ineffective bomber first is...

I think it shows the opposite. It shows that even though the bomber misses on the first pass and I had the chance to stop everything and build TWO AA units in response to it, the AA still can't kill it off fast enough. And while I have to stop my eco to try and deal with the bomber, the bomber first player does not. Yes I could have spread my engs out after building the AA turret. But there is a certain silliness in having to engage in this kind of engineer-dodging micro. I have no problems sacrificing an eng to a bomber in the opening moments of a game. But four in one shot is something I never imagined was possible.

Statistics: Posted by welder — 12 May 2012, 17:01

Re: 1 bomber takes out 4 eng in one pass

2012-05-12T13:58:24+02:00

That actually shows how terribly ineffective bomber first is...

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 12 May 2012, 13:58