Forged Alliance Forever

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-08T16:38:28+02:00

HighFlyer15 wrote:
I kinda understand it with planes, but something like TMLs hunting you whereever they go, whenever they can O_o
That's creepy tbh O_o

Well i don't understand that you understand it as OK for planes. It's the exact same principle.

In all honnesty, who's the player that gonna let his commander getting sniped (Assuming he's quite far from the tml-ing commander according to the context stated before) by 2-3 tml in a row ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 08 May 2012, 16:38

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-08T09:40:06+02:00

i dont see ur issue there. u know that the missle cost mass? u know that if u click 1 million time to launch the missle u cant do anything else with the acu - if u dont want to cancel the "1 million launch". u know that u need at least 2 hits with the missle?
i dont know the skill level of ur opponents, but if they get sniped so easily, it is not quite high

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 08 May 2012, 09:40

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-08T08:58:46+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
Not specific to TML.

I use the same thing to chase ASF(can be a very risky move though hehe). The planes will chase the enemy no matter what.
I never saw that as a problem although it's true that once you lose radar, it would make sense to lose the target. I think it's part of the engine and need to be accepted as such.

When you get hit by TML, don't ever stay static until you're under shield or protected by TMD. Even if you're not doing anything with your commander, have it just patrol on short distance.

I kinda understand it with planes, but something like TMLs hunting you whereever they go, whenever they can O_o
That's creepy tbh O_o

I've learned to accept it, but the TML "bug" was something that really made me think "ehm why don't I build such a thing every single game and just make it hunt the enemy ACU forever by clicking attack a million times on his ACU."
It would be stupid not to, since if he goes outside his TMD range for one lucky second, I could kill him without even thinking about it.

Statistics: Posted by HighFlyer15 — 08 May 2012, 08:58

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-07T05:47:57+02:00

Not specific to TML.

I use the same thing to chase ASF(can be a very risky move though hehe). The planes will chase the enemy no matter what.
I never saw that as a problem although it's true that once you lose radar, it would make sense to lose the target. I think it's part of the engine and need to be accepted as such.

When you get hit by TML, don't ever stay static until you're under shield or protected by TMD. Even if you're not doing anything with your commander, have it just patrol on short distance.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 07 May 2012, 05:47

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-07T01:31:50+02:00

I'm more concerned with the TML lock-on.

Friend of mine played against me, he got the TML on his ACU, he scouted me(didn't have a missile in the TML), pressed attack 3 times on me, lost radar contact and didn't see me at all after that.. Each time a missile was build, it fired and hit STRAIGHT in my face and I died without me knowing what hit me.

This "press attack on a target, target disappears, but the attacking unit still knows exactly where it is and hunts it down" problem has been around since SupCom was released.

Statistics: Posted by HighFlyer15 — 07 May 2012, 01:31

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T15:34:14+02:00

Iszh wrote:
a tmd costs lot more against such a monster mobile tml. to stop it you need 3 tmd at the place you need the defense. 4 tmd cost already like this upgrade. and you need to save everything in your land with tmd. that means with 3 tmd the problem is not solved he can walk arround. and btw he will shoot over the tmd if he is shooting behind. so you can waste 4k mass in tmd just to have a chance not to be completely deleted by this upgrade. thats fair?

Hey if it's that easy and safe. Go ahead. do it, do in plain water and tml . Do it, it's SO easy and imba.

Oh did u ever check how many nuke defs(and the consecutive cost it implied) that had to be built because ONE player made a nuke launcher ?
f*** this, it SO imba, I need four damn nuke d. Balance this please.

-cross water

Well last time I checked auroras could cross water, and own SEVERELY sera arties 1v1. Last time I checked UEF had LABS that are great early game for harassment.

-defeat tanks without own tanks

LOL. I'm shit on land micro and tanks own arties for brekkie .

-has monster dps and fire rate which can delete base and acu fast

Check the numbers ? dps are the same, fire rate is faster true, but if you're in position of shooting the other guy base, he's lost already. UEF or aeon arties won't be worse.

tell me can medusa reach a similiar effekt? hardly

This has been debated already a thousand times. Yes cybran artie is not the best for damages, make more mantises ?
Or use the few cyb arties wisely.

tell me can lobo swim over the whole map and kick everything including few tanks? no

Guess what, well let me take a pick, sera doesn't have t2 mobile shield. Imbalanced faction

and aeon arti you can forget in general 1 of it can easily kill a t1 pd but thats everything this thing can do in the game
and none of them can swim!

If only aeon didn't have the tanks with the best range, oh and wait, they can hover too. Holy smokie.

i fe seen sera players who only got arti and no tanks at all. the stupid thing about it, it will work. try this with other factions. you will fail dramatic

If you failed versus 100% arties, you deserved to lose

I believe that if those were so imba, you would see on ranked ladder only sera players spamming only arties.

Seems to me you just can't handle the faction diversity that we should CHERISH.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 06 May 2012, 15:34

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T13:52:41+02:00

a mobile tactical missile (plus UEF's BIlly) is an advantage not a disadvantage. Odds are you're going to cover your comm when it ventures out of the base and if the enemy can already snipe your com without going through your army then you were probably going to lose anyway. The TML upgrade shouldn't be a game ender unless you seriously chain reaction the enemy base and a lot of people don't even use them offensively, they just take out experimentals with them. So the idea that the upgrade is risky or leaves your commander vulnerable is sort of moot. I think for the sake of game understanding they just shouldn't be able to fly over TMDs, then they should be buffed accordingly (more HP works).

Ideally the changes would really be cosmetic in that they'd make the game easier to understand. Nobody is going to be confused by why their TMDs don't work - they'll just understand that they need more to counter the TML upgrade... which you only do if you're a seasoned vet.

FAF is trying to bring more players into the game not alienate the ones they already have.

Edit: As far as T1 Sera arty goes, Funk had a really good suggestion saying their cost should be increased to put their DPS below that of tanks in cost. Right now any faction can mass t1 mobile arty and it's fair effective vs t1 tanks - and T1 PD can't do anything about it.

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 06 May 2012, 13:52

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T13:46:53+02:00

a tmd costs lot more against such a monster mobile tml. to stop it you need 3 tmd at the place you need the defense. 4 tmd cost already like this upgrade. and you need to save everything in your land with tmd. that means with 3 tmd the problem is not solved he can walk arround. and btw he will shoot over the tmd if he is shooting behind. so you can waste 4k mass in tmd just to have a chance not to be completely deleted by this upgrade. thats fair?

and to your arti. maybe you cannot see the difference to the other factions. nobody else has a t1 unit which can:
-cross water
-defeat tanks without own tanks
-has monster dps and fire rate which can delete base and acu fast
tell me can medusa reach a similiar effekt? hardly
tell me can lobo swim over the whole map and kick everything including few tanks? no
and aeon arti you can forget in general 1 of it can easily kill a t1 pd but thats everything this thing can do in the game
and none of them can swim!
i fe seen sera players who only got arti and no tanks at all. the stupid thing about it, it will work. try this with other factions. you will fail dramatic

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 06 May 2012, 13:46

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T12:26:56+02:00

The arties are not imbaLANCED, they are tough. Can you tell the difference ? They are great, but imbalanced ? hardly.

And for the TML it's a pain, yes, but it's fair when a few hundred mass block the upgrade that costed more. Add to that the risks that the adventurous commander takes.

Still referring to the situation you described. IT can only happens if navy is lost, so it's well deserved.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 06 May 2012, 12:26

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T10:47:21+02:00

Rofl thats not crying. what i mean is that this weapon has with t3 engi upgrade 300 built time of the rocket and 6k damage a dps of around 2000 over a range of 5 km and can move. this firepower cannot provide a t3 arti for 90.000 mass or any exp unit for 40.000 mass. and you think thats fair? what is comparable in aeon arsenal or cybran? and please dont forget while thinking about this that a stationary tml has low life and cannot run away while beeing rushed, it cannot be built on water and much more disadvantages. a commander has 18.000 life and tml spam. he can even kick easily fatboys and other exp units with it.

and V that the t1 rti of sera is imba thats for everybody visible. you must be blind if you cant see this. just stop playing seraphim. your eyes will be opened.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 06 May 2012, 10:47

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T10:33:56+02:00

Don't be bitter cause you don't know how to use the TMD. I was in the same position not so long ago. May I suggest you watch the video from Smasher ? It will give you hints on how to improve your tmd positionning

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 06 May 2012, 10:33

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T10:35:41+02:00

Iszh wrote:
acu tml is to be fixed. on setons i ve seen an acu which was upgraded engi plans t3 and tml to water. since his team had ships there he could go close to enemy coast and shoot within 1 minute arround 20 t3 mexes away of the enemy team. TELL ME ONE WEAPON INGAME WHICH CAN DO ALIKE. no ship for no cost can do such imba things defeating a team completely just by good positioning. thats what we call IMBA.

In this short time everything happened nobody had even a chance to think about tmd. those rockets need a built time adepted to 90 built power and not to 10! it is bonus enough that acu can carry this tml to the ass of the world forward and backward no matter where you need it and from where you have to protect it.

Right, it's part of the risk/reward, but I think if you could actively counter it with missile defense then it would be only viable if it isn't scouted and they scout you. Right now you can find out where their missile defense is and just fly your TMs over their TMD ... it's silly.

And comparing it to other weapon equivalents in game just goes to show it is somewhat off kilter.

An hp buff and cooldown or simply an HP buff would be great. To whoever said that the firerate is necessary to keep it viable, that's really anecdotal and presumptive - we can't really know that unless balance is played with? But really, nobody is going to be sitting at their base countering the hypothetical limit of 1 missile per 5 seconds after the first one anyway, if they are then the element of surprise was already lost and the tactic deserves not to work.

I also agree that making the upgrade more visible would be a good move.

Edit: also scouting in big teams games right now isn't all that easy because of how easily spy planes get taken out by meager flak or ASFs flying in enemy space. You shouldn't be able to completely block a determined scouter so easily - preclude them from a part of your base.. sure if you can't even see where the enemy flak is how are you supposed to avoid it in those big macro games.

From what I can tell the most effective means to scout is just to send your entire ASF force to the enemy base. Or EoR.

I don't think a small hp buff on T1 and even T3 scouts would hurt the game at all.

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 06 May 2012, 10:29

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T10:22:39+02:00

Iszh wrote:
acu tml is to be fixed. on setons i ve seen an acu which was upgraded engi plans t3 and tml to water. since his team had ships there he could go close to enemy coast and shoot within 1 minute arround 20 t3 mexes away of the enemy team. TELL ME ONE WEAPON INGAME WHICH CAN DO ALIKE. no ship for no cost can do such imba things defeating a team completely just by good positioning. thats what we call IMBA.

Absolutely not.
You cry way too much Iszh, even in game, even about imba t1 arties. , it really starts to be ridiculous.

If the ACU is allowd to go in plain open water (far from his coast) , like smasher would say "TASTE IT". The guy completely failed on his navy so embrace your epic fail. That's all, nothing imbaLANCED (i thought you might need a recall of its meaning) on that.

Next thing you will cry about the strat bombers that kill you cause your air player failed .

Some things definately needs some fixing (slight improvement of the uef tmd?) , ACU tml doesn't.

For the record when I know a mid player (mega, smasher, griefer, aflac and the list of bastard goes on ) is in opposite team and I notice he can have an opportunity to goes in mid sea and tml my mexes, I get 3 (4?) tmd and that's it. Have you considered the high risks of getting snipped compared to the costs of a FEW tmd ?

[irony on]
Nerf the t2 transports, if no air, the t3 commander can com drop in the enemy side and quickly build a base and tml all the mexes. Pooooooop!
[irony off-'till next time]

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 06 May 2012, 10:22

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-06T09:22:21+02:00

acu tml is to be fixed. on setons i ve seen an acu which was upgraded engi plans t3 and tml to water. since his team had ships there he could go close to enemy coast and shoot within 1 minute arround 20 t3 mexes away of the enemy team. TELL ME ONE WEAPON INGAME WHICH CAN DO ALIKE. no ship for no cost can do such imba things defeating a team completely just by good positioning. thats what we call IMBA.

In this short time everything happened nobody had even a chance to think about tmd. those rockets need a built time adepted to 90 built power and not to 10! it is bonus enough that acu can carry this tml to the ass of the world forward and backward no matter where you need it and from where you have to protect it.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 06 May 2012, 09:22

Re: ACU TML

2012-05-05T23:34:47+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
I've never really saw it as a problem, but people keep reporting this as a "bug" on the repository and complaining about it in chat.

This. It's not that the ACU TML is over powered, it's that it makes for frustrating/bad gameplay when the mechanics you thought were designed to counter it don't actually work.

Someone else suggested buffing the HP from 3 to 4 on the missile, it's already better than the regular TML so I think this would be a pretty reasonable compromise. This way one lone TMD will indeed have a hard time stopping an ACU TML but it will also be obvious that the designed counter is working as intended.

Perfect balance IMO right there.

Edit: also a cool down on the TML isn't a bad idea either, in general FA needs some more cool downs to keep the game strategic. Intelligence should be vital, in many cases seeing something coming doesn't matter because you don't have time to react.

An hp buff on T1 ground/air scouts would be a great move and perhaps a buff on T3 spy planes too. Right now it seems like scouting isn't all that feasible (or even cost effective).

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 05 May 2012, 23:34