Inquiry to the moderation team

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

Moderators: Mountain, FtXCommando

Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby Petricpwnz » 12 Mar 2019, 22:03

Hello. Before you go on to delete this thread, I'm creating this as the last resort as all other means of communication are being bluntly ignored. I'm writing this in hopes of getting an official response from the moderation team as well as just to shed some light on some of the recent events behind the scenes of FAF.
At 1AM 7th of March I received this message from Voodoo, or as he says "The Moderation Team"
Spoiler: show
Image

Anyone active in #aeolus or the game, for this matter, might know me and my personality. Petricpwnz, Whiteheart, Pachuriko, Fremy_Speeddraw and many other aliases are all me. Now I haven't ever been showing the most self-restraint possible, but I do nonetheless try to not stir up trouble where it's not necessary, in this case - slack. And in this case not stirring up trouble was done by simply not participating in any discussions where I didn't have a strong stance and some input. Which in the past month or 2 was I think a 2-liner on topic of controversial UI mods. And so after receiving this PM, being pretty confused and upset I inquired about the examples of toxic attitude that slack has to be "protected from" and that warranted a ban with no notice. I sincerely have no clue what was it that led to this as I in fact do not remember writing anything that would warrant this. Not to mention, I did contribute on slack by reporting map editor bugs to ozonex as well as quietly through PMs in form of QAI code and ladder team map pool app code even if it was perhaps not seen in any public channels. So I assume "being afk" or anything along those lines should be out of the question, as there are many members there who are actually no longer active.
As of this moment, 5 days after the ban, I still haven't received a response. Perhaps I would just go and ask in aeolus, but shortly after receiving this PM I found that I was not the only one removed from slack. Farms and biass received the same exact template message about attitude and had their accounts deactivated. And they tried to get a response too, which, again, as of this moment does not exist.
After some time seeing no response we asked our not yet toxic friends on slack to give us some info by asking around there.

Spoiler: show
Image


Okay. Interesting. But I don't think I even talked to any devs on slack apart from ozonex bug reports, brutus in PM and icedreamer about some UI mod. Attitude each time they tried to contribute? Well maybe my memory is faulty but I don't think I make it a routine to badmouth new java client updates or server patches or really talk about anything that doesn't have a direct connection with the game itself. Again, as the moderation team always says, if you have issues contact them on forums, I asked for evidence and was ignored.
"That's not about a recent event in particular, more about a systematic bullying and/or toxic behavior around slack that has been going on for the past year."
Well, again, I maybe talk once every 2 months, either about UI mods or about, would you believe it, moderation. What integrity is there if anyone can be branded as systematically ill-behaved and kicked out without any solid basis? How many times have I seen "Anyone can join slack and contribute" phrase come around. I was there and was contributing and now I'm a scapegoat for some devs threatening to fork the project or something?


Well ok, no real examples provided, yet toxicity was stated as the ban reason. Here is where we come to find strange double standards and inconsistencies, as it just so happens I have some slack toxicity proofs of other users.

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image

Wow, people actually use sarcasm, what a crime!

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


A few more examples in form of plain text due to lack of screens, but their authenticity is legitimate.
Spoiler: show
Louvegarde
Best projects are the ones non-programmers can understand and suggest changes on without much extra effort
downlord
Not sure if I should laugh or cry



Louvegarde
you seem to have missed an entire part of text that some call "context". The base principle is that this sentence, like any sentence, makes sense based on what context it is placed one - which defines the message it tries to convey i mean it's just driving me crazy to read stuff like "steam link is just in place so we can avoid having to play with feather and a few other weirdos, is it worth losing 30 faf users daily ?"
cause that's just plain dumb i mean


downlord
the day you make flawless PRs and deploy them yourself and neither brutus nor me have to spend a second looking into it, no java developer time is wasted, yes


Louvegarde
I'm mod and also if downlord wasn't around to tell me i'm just a hobbyist PHP developer I would even add that i'm a dev on faf


rackover
you seem to like passive aggressiveness at least as much as downlord


Louvegarde
hint : if you try and read the message in its entirety you may have less trouble grasping the idea behind it.


Just a few random examples here. Now if the ban was as it says due to toxicity then I'm a little confused here. Because it seems there is plenty of toxicity far worse than what I remember myself having on slack, including the slightly ironic fact that a lot of it comes from the same person (a moderator) that explained how we were banned due to said toxicity. Moreover, I see plenty of bickering and dev infighting on development related topics, topics I normally just ignore.
This all doesn’t paint a pretty picture for me considering we received 0 evidence of our own “toxic attitude”.
Now you can reread this part after seeing all the screenshots above and tell me if perhaps, maybe, there are issues much deeper that lay within slack.
Spoiler: show
Image
This is going back to the scapegoat thing.

The saga continues. FtX inquired about the bans and got a mod to respond. I will simply leave the screenshots here and give you a chance to feel the strong argumentation provided.


Part 1
Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

(Not true btw, I had a PM talk with Strogo about his mod, it was also me who suggested if he is even thinking about implementing it, he should only implement the minimalistic EQ version)
Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image


What I see: -Why was it petric that got banned despite plenty of toxicity all over slack?
-Well he contributes to balance through discord anyway. (Yea and code through slack)


Part 2

Read carefully
Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Ok so contribution is brought up, which again, shouldn't be a problem for me, but it got simply ignored.

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Wait a moment. Have nothing against thomas but his sarcasm frequency is possibly just as high as farms' and is used plenty on slack too.
Still not clear whether being on slack for "overall feedback" is ok or not. Let's continue.

Spoiler: show
Image

Yea I think I found a few screenshots worse. Am I saying being edgy is ok? No, I still don't know what "edgy" of mine is being referred to, but to warrant a ban while toxicity I show in the screens is just fine I assume it has to be something major.

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

"You can expect me to do it professionally when you pay me by the hour", taking that one for the next time someone complains about balance.

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image


As of this moment my irc mod group PM and any attempts of ftx getting through on slack are being ignored.
Now I don't know how slack poses itself in relation to FAF but if we take discord as the example, it poses itself as an official discord server and obeys faf rules, let's review one possible case: slack poses itself as an official contributor hub and the same can be applied. If you ever chat in aeolus then I think it would be pretty unimaginable for you to get permabanned with no notice for using sarcasm or not putting enough friendly smiley faces with every message.
No matter how I look at it, I just don't see a solid basis for these bans.
And the second case: slack is a private space where faf rules don't apply. Now slack doesn't have it's own rules so would be logical the the only rule is "common sense". This goes around to an argument that happened on slack about moderator power reach, when a certain user had come into slack insulting people and had been gotten rid of. As far as I remember no agreement was reached but the consensus was that slack doesn't need extra moderation and slack doesn't need more moderators than we have (4 or so slack admins). In this case I don't see where this minimalistic moderation exists because this is anything but that. More over a very select group of people were banned while other display of worse behavior was ignored. I think I wouldn’t even care if this ban came from Sheeo personally for whatever reasons, but I've had enough with the moderation team. Saying I cannot trust them would be an understatement.
There is no transparency when it comes to moderation and you can't even get the mod team to reply, not even to the very people in question. Small crumbs of info getting through point in every direction possible including toxic behavior, lack of contribution and devs forking faf conspiracy, none of which got backed up in a way that warrants the current outcome.
I'm resigning from my position of balance team member, ladder team leader, stopping maintenance of QAI/NyAI and map pool app and ceasing anything faf work-related until I get a clear answer with solid reasoning. And whether it warrants the ban or falls within double standards of moderation we will see. If it’s the first then I will have no problem ceasing this inquiry.
Thanks.
Spoiler: show
Image
Last edited by Petricpwnz on 13 Mar 2019, 00:27, edited 1 time in total.
Blackheart wrote:actually i love lolis and want petry to be my waifu


Scientifically proving that Blackheart is a weeb - https://imgur.com/a/J436c | https://clips.twitch.tv/AssiduousAverageOxMikeHogu

Best meme of 2017 - https://puu.sh/yLsvH/abbf54eb99.mp4
User avatar
Petricpwnz
Priest
 
Posts: 435
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 01:48
Has liked: 407 times
Been liked: 438 times
FAF User Name: Whiteheart

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby Uveso » 12 Mar 2019, 22:35

Petricpwnz wrote:I'm resigning from my position of balance team member, ladder team leader, stopping maintenance of QAI/NyAI and map pool app and ceasing anything faf work-related until I get a clear answer with solid reasoning


You should write this at the beginning...
User avatar
Uveso
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: 11 Dec 2015, 20:56
Location: Germany
Has liked: 47 times
Been liked: 208 times
FAF User Name: Uveso

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby MrTBSC » 12 Mar 2019, 23:04

now i don´t know anything bout FAFpoltics but this looks quite like an unstable house of cards ....

seriously ... what the actual ...
MrTBSC
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 07 Sep 2016, 20:12
Has liked: 7 times
Been liked: 0 time
FAF User Name: Mr.TBSC

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby Blodir » 12 Mar 2019, 23:53

So clearly you guys got removed because you annoyed a bunch of developers and/or moderators (as all of u definitely qualify for slack in terms of contribution). Why do you think that is? Why are there several contributors in 'high' positions who don't like you and your friends? If you think it's some kind of personal vendetta then how did you manage to form such with so many people that you ended up getting removed?
Blodir
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1111
Joined: 07 Jan 2013, 14:14
Has liked: 444 times
Been liked: 494 times
FAF User Name: Snowbound

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby FtXCommando » 13 Mar 2019, 00:05

Blodir wrote:So clearly you guys got removed because you annoyed a bunch of developers and/or moderators (as all of u definitely qualify for slack in terms of contribution). Why do you think that is? Why are there several contributors in 'high' positions who don't like you and your friends? If you think it's some kind of personal vendetta then how did you manage to form such with so many people that you ended up getting removed?


If a personal vendetta is driving these actions, the people that can’t separate their personal bias from their actions should be reprimanded. If there exists proof of toxicity that is greater than the toxicity provided in this post, then that proof should be handed over to be looked over by both the parties affected (so they can learn what behavior is unacceptable and perhaps regain Slack access at some point) and the Councillors that have asked for the evidence. If the toxicity is not greater than the provided screenshots and the bans are held, then the people in the provided screenshots should also be removed from Slack, for the sake of fairness.

But maybe I just got an odd way of looking at things.
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 142 times
Been liked: 313 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby Blodir » 13 Mar 2019, 00:13

Obviously they were removed, because a bunch of people didn't like them. If they didn't do anything wrong then why are they disliked so much by several contributors? I mean there's gotta be some source of conflict.
Blodir
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1111
Joined: 07 Jan 2013, 14:14
Has liked: 444 times
Been liked: 494 times
FAF User Name: Snowbound

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby FtXCommando » 13 Mar 2019, 00:15

Who knows? I’d love to find out but moderation is very protective of their private channels.
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 142 times
Been liked: 313 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby speed2 » 13 Mar 2019, 00:15

Those screenshots are completelly cut out of context. They have almost no value.

For the sake of fairness we should measure the amount of contribution and conplaining of those in the screenshots and those banned.

But maybe I just got an odd way of looking at things.
User avatar
speed2
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 3013
Joined: 05 Jan 2013, 15:11
Has liked: 564 times
Been liked: 1012 times
FAF User Name: speed2

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby FtXCommando » 13 Mar 2019, 00:21

Sure. How many git issues is a map worth?

Would you like to provide the context?
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 142 times
Been liked: 313 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Inquiry to the moderation team

Postby Blodir » 13 Mar 2019, 00:25

FtXCommando wrote:Sure. How many git issues is a map worth?

Would you like to provide the context?

Clearly Master Lee is the greatest contributor of all time
Blodir
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1111
Joined: 07 Jan 2013, 14:14
Has liked: 444 times
Been liked: 494 times
FAF User Name: Snowbound

Next

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest