How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

Moderator: JJ173

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 12 Jun 2018, 06:38

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:If the price difference in $ between i5 and i7 stays the same over time... that means the i5 loses value faster percentage wise. So for the cost of once spending $100 more you can enjoy an i7 over an i5 for the rest of your life... or for as long as that used-value thing persists at least :mrgreen:


I meant that the changes in price should be more or less relative (lower ofc) to their starting price, at least on ebay after the fist couple of years after the release imo. After these years, the prices get really diverse, and you will be able to find both at absolutely terrible and insanely good prices for both. But since this is pretty much impossible to test reasonably and highly depends on individuals, location and luck, it is hard to tell what will happen. In my location, the 6600k actually kept more of his value compared to the 6700k. And again, that is variance most likely.


I just look on eBay - European Union and national used market. The downward curve in $ / year seems the same. The i5-2500K is now only worth about 1/4 of it's new price, the i7-2600K still sits at 1/3.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:Upgrading only a CPU is a pretty rare thing anyway. The buyer of your older CPU needs to buy a board anyway.


Exept when he already has a board with a bad CPU and want to upgrade the CPU without needing to buy a new board :) .


Yes, but if that happens to you on Intel platform... used prices for boards of EOL sockets are very high because way more boards die than CPU's. So you can sell your old board at a small loss and just buy everything new.

In all these years I've never had a death CPU anyway. Motherboards though... a bunch. But never, never, a death CPU. Even though many have been installed, uninstalled and reinstalled in another board. Not even laptop CPU's.

Lets say you have a 6700K with Z170 board, the board dies and you can get a S1151v2 board in return for $10 extra.... that's just pure bonus. Sell the 6700K and you can buy anything new that is faster and/or cheaper.

Now if my Z170 board were to die, I definitely hope to get that deal too :P. Except I have a 6600K on it, that didn't keep as much of it's value.
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 787
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 28 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 12 Jun 2018, 11:57

E8400-CV wrote:
I just look on eBay - European Union and national used market. The downward curve in $ / year seems the same. The i5-2500K is now only worth about 1/4 of it's new price, the i7-2600K still sits at 1/3.



source pls

E8400-CV wrote:Yes, but if that happens to you on Intel platform... used prices for boards of EOL sockets are very high because way more boards die than CPU's. So you can sell your old board at a small loss and just buy everything new.


Well yea, never said that wasn't about Intel.

E8400-CV wrote:In all these years I've never had a death CPU anyway. Motherboards though... a bunch. But never, never, a death CPU. Even though many have been installed, uninstalled and reinstalled in another board. Not even laptop CPU's.



Well CPUs can run decades, as long as you don't run 1.45 Volts on 90 degrees through them. So no real surprise there.

E8400-CV wrote:Lets say you have a 6700K with Z170 board, the board dies and you can get a S1151v2 board in return for $10 extra.... that's just pure bonus. Sell the 6700K and you can buy anything new that is faster and/or cheaper.


Well that is true, but now you are dealing with the possibility of your motherboard dying, which I completely ignored in all of my pervious posts, so I cannot say much about that since it kinda is not the topic lol.

E8400-CV wrote:Now if my Z170 board were to die, I definitely hope to get that deal too :P. Except I have a 6600K on it, that didn't keep as much of it's value.


Um, yeah sure
Creator of dual_gap_fix.v0001 - dual_gap_fix.v0004 and DualGap_fix_adaptive.v0005 N O T Dual Gap Adaptive v5.6 or any other versions!

PM me if you find any bugs in one of my maps.
QuestionMarkNoob
Crusader
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 15:55
Location: Questionmark?
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 1 time
FAF User Name: Thaumiel

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Endranii » 12 Jun 2018, 21:57

Here an interesting SS.

R5 2600 stock faster than intel Cpu's that score 150 cpu score and so in lobby, while the r5 get's 203 points avarage on Cpu test yet it's somehow faster in game than those?

Honestly I would love to make some test's be it stock or OC'ed ryzen vs some intel Cpu's.

The bios settings used in this game were Stock r5 2600 with 2666mhz 16-16-16-32-50 16gb ram.
Attachments
Ryzen.png
Ryzen.png (953.28 KiB) Viewed 148 times
Endranii
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 133
Joined: 16 Feb 2017, 18:07
Has liked: 42 times
Been liked: 31 times
FAF User Name: Empty_Spot

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby ZLO_RD » 12 Jun 2018, 22:50

we need an accurate benchmark... like running a replay-like thingy and mesuring time, producing a sim speed graph... ect ect xD
i would really love that. i have multiple PCs to test and might have a hold on many more PCs in future for short period of time
http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus
http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd
TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI"
User avatar
ZLO_RD
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 2015
Joined: 27 Oct 2011, 13:57
Location: Russia, Tula
Has liked: 261 times
Been liked: 302 times
FAF User Name: ZLO

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby IceDreamer » 13 Jun 2018, 00:38

Attached to this post is a zip file containing a basic benchmark I have been using for my optimisation coding. IT IS NOT COMPREHENSIVE.

What this does is start the game with a small window and the log open, in Setons, and throws ASFs in increasing numbers at each other for 3 in-game minutes, as fast as it can process. At 30s, 60s, and on completion, it spits out the REAL SYSTEM TIME elapsed.

To use it, do the following:

- Place the PerfTest map inside your BASE GAME INSTALL. For those with Steam versions of the game, that will be C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Supreme Commander Forged Alliance\maps.
- Make sure the launcher shortcut points to the correct location, the init_faf.lua file. For default installations, that file is found in C:\ProgramData\FAForever\bin. Make sure the Target field for the shortcut's properties looks like this - C:\ProgramData\FAForever\bin\ForgedAlliance.exe /init init_faf.lua /EnableDiskWatch /nomovie /windowed 1024 768 /nointro /showlog /perf

It's not perfect, but ASF fights tend to be where the biggest slowdowns happen. Just bear in mind this is more about creating a consistant, reproducible test scenario more than realistically simulating a game, but with enough data, it _could_ be used to create a CPU heirarchy.
Attachments
Benchmark.zip
(12.68 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
IceDreamer
Councillor - Game
 
Posts: 2562
Joined: 27 Dec 2011, 07:01
Has liked: 131 times
Been liked: 443 times

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 14 Jun 2018, 02:10

Endranii wrote:Here an interesting SS.

R5 2600 stock faster than intel Cpu's that score 150 cpu score and so in lobby, while the r5 get's 203 points avarage on Cpu test yet it's somehow faster in game than those?

Honestly I would love to make some test's be it stock or OC'ed ryzen vs some intel Cpu's.

The bios settings used in this game were Stock r5 2600 with 2666mhz 16-16-16-32-50 16gb ram.


No doubt any desktop Ryzen is faster late-game than an Intel-U. Would be interesting to know actual CPU's of other players.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:
I just look on eBay - European Union and national used market. The downward curve in $ / year seems the same. The i5-2500K is now only worth about 1/4 of it's new price, the i7-2600K still sits at 1/3.



source pls


https://www.ebay.nl/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... _PrefLoc=3
And likewise for the others.
Also https://tweakers.net/aanbod/
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 787
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 28 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 14 Jun 2018, 02:29

The first link is just ebay. And the second link is not in any language I know and the main page.
I thought you had some statistic on the price development or so lol. Using Ebay for that is too inaccurate and depends on your location xD
Creator of dual_gap_fix.v0001 - dual_gap_fix.v0004 and DualGap_fix_adaptive.v0005 N O T Dual Gap Adaptive v5.6 or any other versions!

PM me if you find any bugs in one of my maps.
QuestionMarkNoob
Crusader
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 15:55
Location: Questionmark?
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 1 time
FAF User Name: Thaumiel

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 14 Jun 2018, 02:57

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:The first link is just ebay. And the second link is not in any language I know and the main page.
I thought you had some statistic on the price development or so lol. Using Ebay for that is too inaccurate and depends on your location xD


Knowing new price and current used price shows you a development. Using eBay isn't inaccurate, as it's a huge platform. Link I used shows sellers from within the European Union willing to ship to the Netherlands. And contrary to other platforms, it shows the final transaction price.

Might be different in the USA. If prices are too high here... you should buy up in the US and sell to EU end users... Other way around is likely never going to happen, as the VAT here is included and there is no way to get back the VAT when exporting used. (At least, think not.)

Our national biggest used market (http://www.marktplaats.nl) doesn't keep track of transaction price. Stuff regularly sells below asking price there.

If you have a better way...

eBay does show somewhat higher prices, reflecting it's fees and end-user security (PayPal) compared to other platforms where the payment is directly. But that makes it more comparable, because when buying new you also don't get scammed.
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 787
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 28 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 14 Jun 2018, 04:05

I never claimed to have a better way, my point is that you cannot use websites like Ebay for things like that, in fact I don't think there is any way to get realistic prices on a sample size that small. Or by looking at ebay search results for 2 minutes. Please understand that.

If you look at those prices tomorrow they might be 20 euros higher (or not), shipping might just cost more, or you have bad luck and most of the good prices are already gone. How do you want to sort those problems out? How do you want to take that into account for calculating the average used prices?

But that is not all. The prices shown on ebay are in no way accurate since most people just give a rough estimate of what they want to have, and many people will want to buy the same product, which will drive prices up. And even if they dont use the auction feature of Ebay (you even included actions in your link 10/10 valid data), they will just recommend a really high price and expect other buyers to drive it down a bit. And there is no real way of anyone knowing, what is happening.

As you might have seen ON YOUR OWN LINK, the prices are all over the place... how do you want to use any of that? There are ones for 50 in terrible condition, blatant scams, extremely overpriced ones, bundles with other products, okayish priced ones where the price is not final yet... and there is more. Good luck with that.

Also: This also really depends on what the previous owner used the CPU for. If it was never even unboxed, it will be much more expensive than a sample that ran at 4.2Ghz at 1.49v.
Or will it?
There is little way of telling. Yes there is a way to categorize this on ebay, but since the seller could just lie...

If you really think, that ebay prices are a valid source of information for more or less scientific purposes, I honestly do not know what to say. When looking at those prices everyone in their right mind will see that buying CPUs on Ebay is at least 50% luck in getting a good price and the rest are auctions.

The tldr of your post pretty much was: "hey look Ebay is a valid source of information since it is slightly less of a train wreck than other sites information wise" with no real arguements WHY Ebay should be valid when not comparing it to other sites, that are worse than itself. Is it valid because it is big? Because it takes transactions costs into account (like any other site does lol)? No further comment.


E8400-CV wrote:
Endranii wrote:Here an interesting SS.

R5 2600 stock faster than intel Cpu's that score 150 cpu score and so in lobby, while the r5 get's 203 points avarage on Cpu test yet it's somehow faster in game than those?

Honestly I would love to make some test's be it stock or OC'ed ryzen vs some intel Cpu's.

The bios settings used in this game were Stock r5 2600 with 2666mhz 16-16-16-32-50 16gb ram.


No doubt any desktop Ryzen is faster late-game than an Intel-U.



Thank you for making clear what we have already talked about a million times and everyone agrees on.

E8400-CV wrote:Would be interesting to know actual CPU's of other players.


That is a pro level Seton's game at min 36 with (compared to other maps) insane amounts of units and -2 is the lowest we can see, most other players are -1 and it was already stated that most had a 150 rated CPU. I think we can all agree, that most if not all of these guys have a good CPU, probably from Intel.
And aaaagain, the CPU is not the only variable that determines slowdown, some might have chrome open and such...
Creator of dual_gap_fix.v0001 - dual_gap_fix.v0004 and DualGap_fix_adaptive.v0005 N O T Dual Gap Adaptive v5.6 or any other versions!

PM me if you find any bugs in one of my maps.
QuestionMarkNoob
Crusader
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 15:55
Location: Questionmark?
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 1 time
FAF User Name: Thaumiel

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Farmsletje » 14 Jun 2018, 10:01

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:That is a pro level Seton's game at min 36 with (compared to other maps) insane amounts of units and -2 is the lowest we can see

if only
FtXCommando wrote:
need to give him some time to blossom into an aids flower
Farmsletje
Evaluator
 
Posts: 770
Joined: 14 Sep 2016, 18:38
Has liked: 236 times
Been liked: 317 times
FAF User Name: Farmsletje

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest