Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheating

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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby Endranii » 29 Mar 2019, 21:37

"cuz we can make sure everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to software, not so much when it comes to hardware. Thus your point is invalid mr.zeren.

Also you can split screen already in game while using single monitor.
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby IceDreamer » 31 Mar 2019, 19:31

Not looked into it too closely, but my gut says that allowing UI-mod level control is just too much. I would most readily support removing the capability for UI mods to change priorities, hard-coding them in, and adding a toggle between two, maybe three diferent "Modes", applicable to all units. Snipe mode would be one, forcing all selected units to a preset list topped with the ACU. I think a third mode that might be handy and fair (As in, something a player may wish to do at a strategic level) would be an "Eco focus" mode, which targets Engineers, Mex, PGens etc. And as I typed the last sentence, I realised a fourth "Defense focus" mode, to focus everything on taking out Shields, PD, AA etc.

So in summary:
- Revise the target priority hardcoded list on all units, making it sensible instead of stupid. This is the type of automation intended to take place in this game; units are meant to perform with fair intelligence, at least as far as a 2004 engine allows.
- Remove the ability for UI mods to affect priority, putting all players on a level playing field.
- Have a four-toggle option between Normal (Use unit's specific list), Snipe (ACU etc), Eco (Engies etc), and Defense (PD etc).

This should result in better, more fluid, gameplay, more intelligent targeting by units, less of the more tedious types of micro, and greater choice available to all players than currently.
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby Anihilnine » 01 Apr 2019, 00:35

All levels are on the same playing field when people can use the UI mod. Macros are allowed
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby Evildrew » 05 Apr 2019, 22:33

IceDreamer wrote:- Have a four-toggle option between Normal (Use unit's specific list), Snipe (ACU etc), Eco (Engies etc), and Defense (PD etc).


Something like this please :)
Attachments
targets.png
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby Zopzodeman » 07 Apr 2019, 18:31

Anihilnine wrote:All levels are on the same playing field when people can use the UI mod. Macros are allowed


Whats next? "Play Game automatically" and "WIN " Button on UI for superior AI and prioritizing? UI Mods should only be able to alter appearance and show useful info , not mess with gameplay...
I havent played for long and now i wont play because of this mod...
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby speed2 » 07 Apr 2019, 20:06

Zopzodeman wrote:
Anihilnine wrote:All levels are on the same playing field when people can use the UI mod. Macros are allowed


Whats next? "Play Game automatically" and "WIN " Button on UI for superior AI and prioritizing? UI Mods should only be able to alter appearance and show useful info , not mess with gameplay...
I havent played for long and now i wont play because of this mod...

Dont worry, there's always Steam for people like you
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby Zopzodeman » 07 Apr 2019, 20:13

speed2 wrote:Dont worry, there's always Steam for people like you


People like me? Yeah great discussion skills ... personal attacks ftw!
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby R_Charger » 07 Apr 2019, 21:16

A few of thoughts on this.

The mod is very cool, looks good and allows you to use custom firing priorities. If your units are already firing at a non priority target they will not switch until their current target dies. Using this mod is not some instant win. You still need to have thought about what might be a good set of custom priorities and remember to activate and deactivate them as required in the heat of battle. Of course you still need to move and position your units well too.

I would much prefer this mod is retained or fully integrated as it adds depth and strategy to the game. If someone else's units are behaving more intelligently with their fire orders my response would be to look at the replay and work out why and try and find an answer to the strategy. Not jump up and down and throw my toys out of the pram. Also how are we ever going to encourage innovation and cool mods like this if the default position is not to mess with some imagined state of game purity. Never mind the fact people will just keep stuff to themselves and not share as Strogo has. Please also consider the replies in the original thread and try and be progressive!

If the FAF team want to add more options for all players then all well and good. But please do not hard code out the possibility of some players finding more intelligent sets of custom priorities. If something emerges as clearly superior then those sets can be introduced by the balance team at a later date.

Some might argue that not all players know how to set up their own priorities. Using the same logic we would ban all custom hotkeys which use a very similar method of defining units by category as not all players are capable of that either. In any case its not really that difficult if you actually bother to read the original thread.
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby speed2 » 07 Apr 2019, 21:55

Zopzodeman wrote:
speed2 wrote:Dont worry, there's always Steam for people like you


People like me? Yeah great discussion skills ... personal attacks ftw!

Personal attack? I recommended you a place where you won't have to deal with this mod you don't like and still enjoy this game! You can thank me later
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Re: Important: Changeable Target Priorities are unfair/cheat

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 08 Apr 2019, 00:53

Actually, the “new” version of the mod already has all target priorities one could ask for in 95% of the situations. I seriously doubt that very many people would find the addition of specialized ones very useful at this point. And as Charger already said, if something that is actually broken would emerge it could simply be implemented without much effort. Strogo already implemented some additional ones over the course of the development of the mod.

The newer version of the mod also has a much more intuitive overlay. You can simply make a separate window for all target priorities now which always shows up. So, you don’t even have to click on the attack command anymore in order to change them, they are literally right in front of you, kind of like the minimap is. The setup process takes about 2 minutes.

Introducing 3 (?) more clickable buttons in the same form as we already have just seems like a waste of time. The mod is very intuitive already, the units will simply target what you click on without having to go through some overlay.
If anything, having 3 more buttons which do a lot is more unintuitive. If I press the “kill the defences” button or whatever it will be called, I will immediately ask myself if it targets shields over pd or the other way around. And what about mobile shields? Why not just let the user decide what to target and what not.

We already got a glimpse of what is possible and just taking some of that away is regression. The only thing I would consider removing is being able to target the acu. I am personally not really affected much by this because I don’t play 1v1 (where it is the most prevalent), but if I can see the balance problem it can cause.

I see no point in spending time on something that is ultimately less intuitive and less straight forward, because the mod, even in its current, unfinished state already seems like a better option.

And yes, ofc it should be implemented. Its not hard to click on the units you want to target in an overlay. I don’t see how that would overstrain any player. You click on what you want to target. Do you want to target units? Click units. Do you want to target battleships? Click battleships. I see absolutely 0 reason to why the mod wouldn’t be implemented.
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