Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Moderator: JaggedAppliance

Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby JoonasTo » 10 Nov 2018, 20:08

SImple, currently vet gives HP based on max health.

Let's make it give health based on current health. Should avoid most rageworthy vetups, like tele acu and monkeylords.

It just struck me today that not having done this years ago, is kind of retarded.
User avatar
JoonasTo
Priest
 
Posts: 498
Joined: 08 Feb 2015, 01:11
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 82 times
FAF User Name: JoonasTo

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby keyser » 10 Nov 2018, 20:25

we have already reduced the health boost on vet in previous balance patch. (while increasing the regen per vet)
if we do as you said, it's most likely that we won't see any more (or barely depend of the game) unit with veterancy in the game. The health boost in here is in order to allow veteran unit to survive a little longer so they can leave the battlefield and regen. Otherwise most of the time, they would just die right after getting the vet, since in lot of occasion they don't have a lot of HP anymore due to battle.
Zockyzock:
VoR is the clan of upcoming top players now
keyser
Contributor
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: 17 May 2013, 14:27
Has liked: 400 times
Been liked: 459 times
FAF User Name: keyser

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby JoonasTo » 11 Nov 2018, 12:44

That you have added a spoonful of water to fire, while still adding a cup of petrol, does not make it much better. The current mechanic for veterancy is designed to be a slap in the face of the opponent. You get something down to 1 hitpoint and it vets for 10% instant. This is not rewarding anyone for good play. You didn't use the unit well to get vet, you probably yoloed it into enemy mexes or pgens and your opponent is punished for not ctrl-k'ing them all(this is another awful mechanic in itself but not the point here.) What I'm suggesting is you get rewarded for proper unit mix and control instead.

Currently if you send units without anti-air or scouting, they will just run in, get down to 1hp, vet for 10% hp and kill more, vet again, kill more, vet again, and it goes on until five stars. I'm saying you should be instead rewarded for protecting your units from air, running into PDs blind etc. so that when your units that you carefully babysit vet up, they gain the full HP that they deserve for such a feat and that idiot who just right clicked without any flak gets what he deserves, which is 1HP since corsairs were wailing on him all the time.


This is a bit of repepetition but currently the vet does not work like you described you'd want it to, it works like this:
Units stay in the fight to vet -> they vet mid fight -> more hp -> continue to stay in the fight for more vet -> more HP -> continue to stay in the fight for more hp and it continues until five stars. This works completely opposite to what you describe and this is a direct result of the vet mechanics in game interacting with the reclaim mechanic.

You only pull back units from a fight to avoid mass donations or to reclaim them yourself. There is no reason to bring a ML home and let it regen for 9 minutes since you can just build a new one with the reclaim in one or two. It's just wasted resources letting that ML sit there doing nothing.

If you want it to work like you described, you make vet give only regen(and max health if you want,) no instant health boost and then you make it so regen only happens out of combat and is relatively fast. Or you make repairing faster and more convenient than building new stuff.
(From experience, I can tell you regening/healing units are a mistake when combined with a fast transportation ability like teleport, see Hexa laming in C&C3 KW if you're not familiar with such mechanics.)

BTW. Commander veterancy is bugged. It gives more instant heal than it should. For example, a telemazer Cybran ACU will heal 1k,2k,3k,4k,5k HP for each vet. When it should go 1k, 1.1k, 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.4k, 1.5k.

PS. Can we please add ACU upgrade value to factor in for vet calculation, thank you. A double-gun/lazer + double nano/teleport/cloak acu vetting as easily as T1 paper com is just comical.
User avatar
JoonasTo
Priest
 
Posts: 498
Joined: 08 Feb 2015, 01:11
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 82 times
FAF User Name: JoonasTo

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby IceDreamer » 11 Nov 2018, 15:37

That isn't a bug, it's the intended heals. Complain at balance team about the stupidity of it :)
IceDreamer
Councillor - Game
 
Posts: 2586
Joined: 27 Dec 2011, 07:01
Has liked: 138 times
Been liked: 461 times

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby keyser » 11 Nov 2018, 15:44

just gonna say that you never see any 5 vet units on the battlefield or barely. So what you have been describing is just fantasy. i happen to see a T2 tank getting to 2nd vet when fighting T1 units (eg aurora). or a T3 unit that was dropped into a base, and succeeded to kill key buildings. (and this has been nerfed already)
the only unit we get to see to vet 5 are ground attack air unit when opponent does care dealing with it and ACU. (maybe exp, but way less than before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFUQWXrcGH8
just gonna post that here, just to showcase the perfect balance we achieved to reached <3
(also your example with aa and air is irrelevant)
Zockyzock:
VoR is the clan of upcoming top players now
keyser
Contributor
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: 17 May 2013, 14:27
Has liked: 400 times
Been liked: 459 times
FAF User Name: keyser

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby JoonasTo » 11 Nov 2018, 16:04

IceDreamer wrote:That isn't a bug, it's the intended heals. Complain at balance team about the stupidity of it :)

I feared so when I took a look at the code but I had a small hope it wasn’t so.

I think I’m done here. There’s obviously no point in this as the majority prefers astro crater anyhow.

I’ll just find another game.
User avatar
JoonasTo
Priest
 
Posts: 498
Joined: 08 Feb 2015, 01:11
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 82 times
FAF User Name: JoonasTo

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby Farmsletje » 11 Nov 2018, 16:23

In what world do you live where vet functions like a snowball effect or where blindly charging in t4's without aa into pd and corsairs is rewarded
FtXCommando wrote:
need to give him some time to blossom into an aids flower
Farmsletje
Evaluator
 
Posts: 971
Joined: 14 Sep 2016, 18:38
Has liked: 322 times
Been liked: 397 times
FAF User Name: Farmsletje

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby Dunstklinge » 11 Nov 2018, 16:41

Imagine if the vet system instead was much simpler - say, based on kill count. That way you could more easily calculate when it happens, which makes them less surprising and allows both sides to decide if the engagement would be worth it for them. It would also make it less likely to vet mid fight as the high value units you usually throw at experimentals now give less vet; instead it would punish people who bring a knife to a gunfight or fail to evacuate in time. It would even force the experimental to decide whether he wants to stick around and kill high hp infastructure or go out to hunt for vet and maybe do more damage that way.

Then again, that idea might sound a little too crazy. I wonder what chris taylor would think about that system.
Dunstklinge
Crusader
 
Posts: 16
Joined: 28 May 2018, 14:23
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 5 times
FAF User Name: Dunstklinge

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby keyser » 11 Nov 2018, 16:54

we had that system before and we changed it few balance patch ago for the mass based vet, for several reason. you can check out the patchnote if you want.
Zockyzock:
VoR is the clan of upcoming top players now
keyser
Contributor
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: 17 May 2013, 14:27
Has liked: 400 times
Been liked: 459 times
FAF User Name: keyser

Re: Let's make vet give HP based on actual health

Postby Wesmania » 11 Nov 2018, 17:39

Isn't vet intended to (in principle) discourage low tier spam by rewarding high tier units with additional HP for holding the spam off? It already stopped working well when mass-based vet system was introduced, changing health gain to a fraction of current health will nerf it even more since the high-tier units will get heavily damaged while holding off the spam.
FAF python client is dead. Bug java client devs if you have issues!
Wesmania
Priest
 
Posts: 354
Joined: 19 Nov 2014, 19:17
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 63 times
FAF User Name: MazorNoob

Next

Return to Balance Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest