Radical Balance Ideas

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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby Apofenas » 29 Oct 2018, 17:08

As for Fire beetles.

Can avoid path finding by making fire beetle "transform" into projectile. Just make it "explode" and launch part of it into target or simply look like it's jumping and exploding on impact.

IMO it shouldnt even be a snipe weapon. Put cloak on it, remove all damage and add EMP effect for 30 seconds with 10 AOE. This is would make them way more usefull against units than some pathetic 1.5k dmg.
BalanceVictim wrote:I tried it out, and yes, the anti-torpedo is a useful tool now. Sadly, the rest of the unit is still extremely weak compared to any other frig
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby Louvegarde » 29 Oct 2018, 17:27

As for Fire beetles.

Can avoid path finding by making fire beetle "transform" into projectile. Just make it "explode" and launch part of it into target or simply look like it's jumping and exploding on impact.

IMO it shouldnt even be a snipe weapon. Put cloak on it, remove all damage and add EMP effect for 30 seconds with 10 AOE. This is would make them way more usefull against units than some pathetic 1.5k dmg.


Supcom simply lacks landmines :P

(and naval mines too!)
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby IceDreamer » 29 Oct 2018, 18:45

One thing I'd also love to do is make the game visually more exciting again. As in, non-functional changes to add to faction diversity and identity visually, like (just examples, no necessarily what I'd choose) more lightning weapons for sera, more lasers for cybrans, more big glowy boom booms for aeon etc.
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby The Mak » 29 Oct 2018, 19:02

Crazy Cossack wrote:(e) Again, why not a sea transport unit?


FunkOff back in the day made a hover transport. I uploaded his mod into the mod vault. It is called Hovering Transport V2 V1. There is a mod called Naval Transports V1 by DeadMG already on the mod vault, but I cannot get it to work.

Hovering Transport has a modified UEF T1 transport that is built from the UEF T1 Land Factory. There are all sorts of pathfinding issues with non-air based transports; more discussion can be found here.

TLDR:
One of the units in the 'transport / to be transported' relationship has to be an air unit so it can move straight to the other. Air transport can move straight to land unit; Air plane can move straight to carrier. Things break down when neither is an air unit. :(


So to use the Hovering Transport mod, move the units to be transported as close as you can to the hovering transport, load them up, and transport them away. Ferry also works.



moonbearonmeth wrote:2. Governors should be submersible
UEF doesn't have an underwater T2 unit and that is really imbalanced so why not?


The UEF T2 Shield Boat, Bulwark can play a big role without the need of a submersible destroyer. Plus the UEF T2 Torpedo Boat, Cooper with its incredible torpedo and anti-torpedo capabilities is the most cost-effective in dealing with under water threats. You cannot forget about the UEF Experimental Atlantis, the cheapest experimental in the game, when you need the hit points and some strong torpedo damage. The vision radius helps with stealth threats as well.


Apofenas wrote:Hover t1 is not a problem unless you play some shit map like Four corners, Wilderness or some Melted Duel.


I think this point is really underrated. Unbalanced map design will always favor one faction over another. Many times before we discuss changing/adding units we need to make sure the situation is balanced so that proper counters are attainable.

I would love to add more units into the base game and look forward to Nomads being brought into common play, just need to make sure they are balanced.
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby Turinturambar » 29 Oct 2018, 19:44

Apofenas wrote:As for Fire beetles.

IMO it shouldnt even be a snipe weapon. Put cloak on it, remove all damage and add EMP effect for 30 seconds with 10 AOE. This is would make them way more usefull against units than some pathetic 1.5k dmg.


did you also make EQ lab stun concept?
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby moonbearonmeth » 29 Oct 2018, 22:56

I get the feeling the sarcasm in my post was not clearly conveyed.
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby ZeRen » 30 Oct 2018, 00:13

when you here talking about crazy ideas, I have some of my own

you know factions are kinda mess, cyb has T1 bot, T2 tank, UEF has T1 T2 tank T3 bot, just so weird, so I was thinking, balance team love diverzity :D

so UEF would be full tank faction, Cybran would be full bot, Aeon full hover, hover Harbi :lol: , Sera :D I have no idea :D, you know diverzity :P

another crazy idea was, Cyb and UEF dont have T1 hover so playing small water map is more difficult, so what about make Mantis jump? :D you know it would jump and slowly flying toward target location unable to change target location and killable by AA and Air , UEF T1 tank would be like wagner

it is not suggestion for balance, just some thought
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby Crazy Cossack » 30 Oct 2018, 00:19

I admit balance is a tough thing to get right. This is more so when a game relies on asymmetric factions for play variety. On a balanced map, faction A versus faction A is symmetric war. Faction A versus Faction B, C or D is asymmetric war (and so on with the other combinations). At the same time, FA and FAF have so much unit variety that even Faction A versus Faction A never turns out to be symmetrical in practice anyway. There are so many development paths and so many tactical trumping (rock, paper, scissors) relationships.

FAF probably has to follow the iterative refinement path now. Therefore, I admit (after the discussions above), that radical re-balancing belongs in mods not in FAF. What remains relevant for FAF then are the arguments of "fix broken and unused units" and "ensure each faction fulfills its mission". That second statement relates to the comments on the claimed weakness of Cybran drops (for example). If units are broken or if they are not performing to specification and fulfilling their mission (e.g. firebeetles for sniping) then there is a case for re-working / re-balancing them.

I think the T3 mobile AA is a good implementation. This is provided it works and is not OP. I say leave it in the game and make sure it is fully functional and balanced.

Footnote: I have other ideas on economic/military balance and tactical/strategic balance. These ideas belong in a mod (maybe mine if I can make it). I will start another thread on that topic. I will put it in the Mods section as it will essential be a discussion for mod ideas.
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby Apofenas » 30 Oct 2018, 13:49

Turinturambar wrote:did you also make EQ lab stun concept?

That useless ability is not my sin. EQ lab stun is just 1 sec so it only affects DPS of Mantis, Mechmarine and Riptide, only usefull to throw these to let Hoplites escape.
BalanceVictim wrote:I tried it out, and yes, the anti-torpedo is a useful tool now. Sadly, the rest of the unit is still extremely weak compared to any other frig
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Re: Radical Balance Ideas

Postby randall172 » 11 Nov 2019, 19:21

AIRCRAFT OVERHAUL

In order to better blend air, land, and sea. while also nerfing air spam in some ways:

Dramatically lower fuel times, 70-90% of all non transports and bombers. Enough that you are REQUIRED to use air staging facilities/carriers to project to other areas of the map.

I would also increase time to refuel for staging facilities, the key is to have diminishing returns for large airforces because the extra planes will just be waiting to refuel.

This would also buff air experimental, as you would be forced to have a reserve force ready to intercept it.

then the question becomes why not bombers? bombing targets outside of your escorts range means your bombers are very likely to get intercepted and shot down.

then TML air staging snipes to cripple your ability to keep your air ready
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