Enhanced Unit cap ?

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Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Cheva » 22 Jan 2018, 03:33

Hello,

I was playing one particularly long game today during which I wondered if anyone has ever thought of the idea below.

I don't think it is a great idea but more of a greater good idea.

Problem: Large 1v1 maps, Large team games or even games where 1 player completely outmatches the other(troll). It is obviously possible to spam a tone of t1 arty, t1 frigates, t1 labs, t1 bombers etc etc. Even after passing to t2 and t3 stages. While that is mostly ok it is an issue late game when you stall for time making a tone of cannon fodder units. Which I argue makes the game play pretty boring at minus 5 in 1v1 or 4v4 while watching 500 frigs, t1 arty, t1 bombers run into each other.

Possible solution: unit caps when you pass to the next Tech tier. Lets say you are making land t1. When you pass to t2 land you can make a max of 20 extra t1 units for example. Then upon hitting t3 you can make a max of 20 more t2 units for example. Forcing you to use the next tier.

Not the best idea I admit however playing or watching games where you spam 800 t1 arty or 500 frigates is not exactly thrilling game play. The numbers in the cap of course need to be adjusted I just provided the concept for discussion.

Why reward people for using t1 in minute 30 ? Should we not keep the game fast and more about using later tier units ?

Non hostile thoughts ? Just an idea.

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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby moonbearonmeth » 22 Jan 2018, 04:10

A lot of units can and will compliment one another between tech levels. I.e. Asylums supporting Auroras is a viable tactic which you have now made exempt as well as then supporting a T3 army with Asylums. Also what of different facets of the army? Can you no longer build interceptors since you have T2 land?

Why reward people for using t1 in minute 30 ?

Why not?

Should we not keep the game fast and more about using later tier units ?

Should we limit someone in the options the can pursue just because you find one boring?
No, no we should not.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Cheva » 22 Jan 2018, 04:47

I asked for non hostile thoughts.

It's more about game progression. Granted it is only a problem on large maps really.

Why reward using mass low level units ? I argue that throwing around a large number of low level units is not very strategic late game. How does that make the game-play exciting.

The game is not being updated and late game lagg makes for a terrible user experience. We can live in the lagg and waste time or adapt. Engie mod attempted to make t2 and t3 engies more used is this concept not similar in some respects ?

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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby moonbearonmeth » 22 Jan 2018, 05:18

Cheva wrote:I asked for non hostile thoughts.

And I don't recall threatening your family with execution.

Cheva wrote:It's more about game progression.

And so it progressed from itty bitty bits of T1 to iggy biggy bits.

Cheva wrote:I argue that throwing around a large number of low level units is not very strategic late game.

I argue if it wasn't strategic, people wouldn't do it.

Cheva wrote:How does that make the game-play exciting.

bUt iT'S bOrInG.

Cheva wrote:We can live in the lagg and waste time or adapt. Engie mod attempted to make t2 and t3 engies more used is this concept not similar in some respects ?

And look at how many T1 engineers you still build and CAN still build.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby ZLO_RD » 22 Jan 2018, 13:18

It makes me happy when t1 units are still used at 30 minute mark for a reason. Like labs or arty at new expansions where you can't bring higher tech units yet, or not even need to, just need to kill t1 mexes and t1 engies... i remember someone having a hard time against me trying to raid my t1 mexes with bricks...
Usually RTS games are proud that all units get used and there are no useless ones.

people spam tons of arty and frigates cause it is effective... maybe that is kinda a balance problem, spamming arty overwhelms destroyers, makes you make frigates, forces you to micro and extends life of enemy mexes, sometimes even lets arty spammer reclaim and rebuild navy...

so it kinda looks like arty is the only problem, it forces people to build frigs, also so far i have only seen it on setons... so it is only one map, one faction, one unit, only certain spot vs certain spot play. That is also a consiquence of not having an easy way to micro against arty or destroyers being much less effective against t1 arty than frigates.
just don't think whole unit cap system needs overhaul, or at least not by this reason.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby speed2 » 22 Jan 2018, 13:37

Unit cap is set in the engine so that cant be changed.

Maybe some sim mod that would keep track of all units and then denied building more would work, but would be more complicated...

Which brings it to the point that I think this should stay as a mod idea. Late usage of lower tier units is not so bad in my eyes, maybe some small imbalances there and there, but I would no restrict how many of what units can ppl build.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Farmsletje » 22 Jan 2018, 13:44

Fobo's work on almost every watermap where you can get enough eco to support the spam.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Sprouto » 22 Jan 2018, 21:20

It may not be entirely relevant to the OP but in the LOUD Project we have some features that circle around this issue.

Obviously, the balance changes in LOUD bring the tiers closer together, so that lower tier units have greater value for a longer time than in normal play. That being said, later tier units require more unit cap, especially experimentals. To offset this, unit veterancy increases a players unit cap incrementally, and lower tier units gain veterancy sooner that higher tier units, which not only encourages players to use them, but also encourages players to get involved in combat.

This allows you to have lower unit cap games, where unit cap can be expanded through player activity in a natural fashion.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 22 Jan 2018, 21:39

its not onyl bad idea, its horrible idea :D.

for probably most of what was say in first post. Game should never be balanced with such a dirty stuff as meta rules.

and its pretty cool when even on 30 minutes t1 units have role, and game have all +- 180 units per faction instead of 10 that are on t3/4 level.
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Re: Enhanced Unit cap ?

Postby Morax » 22 Jan 2018, 22:00

The only time I ever control my unit count is if I am UEF and have the resources to switch from t1 engie to sparky spam xD
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