T2 Drops

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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Endranii » 06 Jan 2018, 17:14

Morax wrote:Can we not touch the t2 transport speed? Good habits such as having radar, air scout patrols, and general "try to play zoomed out as much as possible" are all solutions to this issue.

By disallowing the devastation of t2 drops you are further encouraging a turtle gameplay; players think they don't need to cover territory and leave it to simple choke points...

This is one of the actual "strategic moves" you can make in the game... Really disappointed


No it still doesn't make sense to have "uncatchable" t2 trans like at the moment. A small nerf speed is necessary to balance it out. At the moment I can't even fight the enemy air and then go for trans I have to go for trans and simply try to kill it in one pass otherwise the inties will get not only out micro'ed by the trans but also raped like christian in muslim country by the air guard it has. So at the moment it is question of do I sacrifice air and try killing it or do I kill the air guard and then try bombing the units dropped while getting ready to give up some of my mass for drop causing dmg to teammates.

Radars, Frigates, T1 scouts don't really help in this dilema 'cuz I already know that trans is coming, the problem is what I do, I lose in both scenarios anyway so welp. Unless it's a non guarded drop then maybe but in that case you probably have more mass than you need or you are sure that enemy have no intel on it.

No it still doesn't encourage turtle play, it just make's the try hard t2 drops lil bit less try hard to deal with while still making sure they are usefull, at least as long as it's not a nerf of more than, 1.5 speed. And out microing the inties should be still possible so what's the deal. The only thing that changes is that your trans no longer are "uncatchable".

And how does small speed nerf makes it no longer available as a strategic move?
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Morax » 07 Jan 2018, 20:00

I think if you play in a way where you scout properly and see a drop you will be able to properly adjust.

If someone spent resources on a drop you should have an advantage. I hardly believe for an instant that the real issue is not that said player was"losing." The only time I have seen t2 drops succeed against me is when I lost air, radar coverage. When watching other's games I have seen pretty much the same.

People tend to complain about things being out of balance when they don't know how to respond.

Do you have a replay I can watch to see where you experienced this event?
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Ike » 08 Jan 2018, 03:04

For fk's sake Morax, this ain't a case where you can just shove the "more scouting and looking at your intel" clause into the person's face! If there was a good, working counter to those drops, people would use it, yes? But since inties, which are what people have when t2 trans show up ~90% of the time, cannot catch the transport, how do you expect the player to counter it? split his airforce so the enemy can overwhelm either of the halves and win air? Won't work. Make flak in potential LZs? Need mass for that. Magically have enough inties to both repel the enemy airforce that will attack your airforce to debilitate it AND to catch the trans? Well, that can be done but it requires victories on land or navy due to micro/strategic skill/enemy error.

No sir, here you cannot shove that argument. I've had a Gap game where I KNEW the enemy was gonna com drop in a t2 trans. I saw him loading. I could see him on the radar. But my inties couldn't catch it. That is a balance issue. There are two solutions:

1) As I proposed earlier, add 4 new units to each faction, each following their philosophy and each would be better for its purpose in a way characteristic of the faction, cited below
Spoiler: show
UEF:
Janus --> UEF t2 intie: better AA w/ high speed, high alpha railguns, faster than t2 trans, no anti-ground capabilities
A-20 (new unit) --> UEF t2 carpet bomber: massive air to ground damage, spread out via smaller napalm bombs, flares instead of AA

Seraphim:
Notha --> Sera t2 intie, similar cannon to what the ASF and intie have
Yenchy --> Sera t2 sniping bomber: 1) the same bomb as Notha but it flies faster so it can hit, or 2) slow with exponential speed up, tracks but deals less dmg than current Notha

Cybran:
Corsair --> Cybran t2 intie with tracking missiles, just like ASF but lower damage
Caper --> Cybran t2 dive-bomber: dives down to release its missiles and flies up. Dives so far down that arty, MML & tall t3 units can hit them with their projectiles. Deadly accurate but expensive

Aeon:
Buff swift winds with HP
Cleaver --> Aeon t2 missile carrier: loads one mercy on its bottom (conserves missile's fuel), limited AA, flies quicker than Mercy, attack move releases the Mercy and lets the player guide it. While Mercy is loaded, it cannot be targeted at but it can be hit by land-based or air-based AA, just like a unit in a transport. Optional: change Mercy's explosion to be a big chrono BOOM to freeze unshielded t1-t3 units around it, kinda like the t1 bomber but bigger

2) nerf trans speed but this will face opposition from the community.

I don't understand what's the problem with adding new units. This is a community-driven lobby. If the people desire new units, they should get them. Balance should be shaken up from time to time and keep evolving.

A poll should be conducted (posting a link on the What's New page and give people a week to answer) to find out what the people think but that's PC's job.
Don't complain about that which you aren't willing to change.

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Re: T2 Drops

Postby biass » 08 Jan 2018, 03:46

Erich von Manstein wrote:A small start nerf will be hated by "the community", entire system rework is fine however.


you are very out of touch, why do you think bhedit exists

tiny tiny speed reduction on trans is ok, not enough to ruin skill gap but enough to not just autowin

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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Morax » 08 Jan 2018, 04:40

Erich Von Meinstein wrote:No sir, here you cannot shove that argument. I've had a Gap game where I KNEW the enemy was gonna com drop in a t2 trans. I saw him loading. I could see him on the radar. But my inties couldn't catch it. That is a balance issue. There are two solutions:


Please provide replay so I can see the situation. Sorry if you don't like my feedback.

If something like this concerns you so much you should get in the habit of saving replays to a folder where you have issues to raise. You know that most people who work on the game need to review this rather hear "word of mouth."

No offense to you by any means, but I learned the hard way as well that not bringing evidence will not yield any result.
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby C-Star » 20 Jan 2018, 20:33

when you cant catch the trans you can

* build PD in your base asap, so the landing commander faces some fire or chosses another landingspot wich will make his drop less efficient
* spam t1 arty
* inform your allies, so they can get t2 mml or an airsnipe
* you should have sth else, because you enemy invested intop the drop. so maybe you have 30 tank to attack (and kill) his base
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Farmsletje » 20 Jan 2018, 20:46

Thx for the tips! Next time my enemy drops harbs at min 11 i'll spam t1 arty, build pd around my core 4 mexes and counterattack with 30 tanks!!
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby C-Star » 21 Jan 2018, 17:13

What a constructive addidtion, thx farms. I have an quastion about your dexcribed countertactic. So when you... uhm... do... oh!... you didnt say anything... So what exectly do YOU do?

1. i assumed we were talking about a com- or sparkydrop
2. harbdrop at minute 11 seems to be like a very pro tactic. the op isnt a pro obviously, so he wont encounter that.
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Endranii » 21 Jan 2018, 17:53

Not sure if @up serious or not.
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Re: T2 Drops

Postby Morax » 22 Jan 2018, 05:30

Farmsletje wrote:Thx for the tips! Next time my enemy drops harbs at min 11 i'll spam t1 arty, build pd around my core 4 mexes and counterattack with 30 tanks!!



That's a t3 land balance issue, not t2 transport : D
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