Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PhilipJFry » 29 Nov 2017, 20:37

I'd rather turn the Tempest into a usable tool for naval combat (right now it is too inefficient and just has a niche role) instead of turning the omen into a Cybran/Seraphim BShip by giving it the same range as them.
I also like the idea of making the Absolver a better tool for navy fights but that might make them op on land unfortunately.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby IceDreamer » 29 Nov 2017, 20:50

I will ignore the various incoherent insults and just make my point again.

I agree with OP that Aeon BS probably need changes to be fun and properly viable (I think). I don't want to do it by changing the range unless I absolutely have to. My examples weren't about pulling things out of my unmentionble, but trying to highlight that the obvious solution isn't always the best. It's certainly never the only viable solution. First place I'd go is to push the Aeon theme even further. They've always been a "One unit for the job" faction, but right now the BS just isn't doing it's job. Neither is the Tempest. Looking at the unit designs, I'd say that the Aeon BS is meant to fill the role of the Neptune (Anti T2, limited bombardment), the Tempest is meant to fill the role of the other factions' BSs in navy terms (Long range ship to ship combat, fleet support, frontloaded damage, splash), and the Torrent is meant to fill the shore-bombardment role that the other factions' BSs are capable of doing in conjunction with the SMS.

Therefore, I would experiment with more DPS, more speed, smaller hitbox on the BS, more velocity, DPS, and BP on the Tempest, and some tweaks to the Torrent to bring it up the power scales a bit.

Doubtless there are another dozen or more solutions that might work, of which range changes are certainly some, but range changes are the big ones that would diminish the idea of having multiple roles across the factions.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PsychoBoB » 29 Nov 2017, 21:06

What about making the Tempest a bit smaller (model and hitbox), faster and more maneuverable. Then the BS can stay what it is, a T2.5 Unit and the Tempest would be a viable T3.5 Unit.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PhilipJFry » 29 Nov 2017, 21:08

would a smaller unit model for the tempest help with its pathfinding issues?
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PsychoBoB » 29 Nov 2017, 21:16

PhilipJFry wrote:would a smaller unit model for the tempest help with its pathfinding issues?

If i am right then the Tempest got already shrunk in the past and it helped a bit. Tests are necessary anyway... ;)
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yolo- » 29 Nov 2017, 21:22

Why is everyone disregarding the fact, that i tried to explain with my picture?

@IceDreamer, how can you say from looking at the unit designs, that the Aeon bs is meant to fill the role of the Neptune? Neptune is not just an Anti t2 unit, it is also a pushing and rushing unit. And clearly the only role for the omen is to be a bs. It is called a bs. And experimental bs surely doesn't mean that it should take the place of the normal bs role, that is just nonsense. It is meant to be a special faction diverse unit! It is a unit that can deal with every unit except air, so how would the tempest fit in the role of normal bs???
Since the turrets of the omen shoot in low height, it is pretty bad at sieging down land structures, so the Torrent already has a role for that. Saying that SMS have the role of shore-bombardment is completly wrong. You can try to snipe some smd or other important structure with its tml, but it is not supposed to do that all the time, because the unit is very vulnerable and it's main purpose is to make nukes and get you more possible angles to nuke your opponent.

So experimenting with more DPS, more speed, smaller hitbox, more velocity wouldn't help the problem at all, it would only make it stronger against t2 and t1 units, and that is not the purpose of a bs. I explained it in my post, it inevitably needs more range, because everything else wouldn't help it at all for a fair balance in every aspect.
The purpose of the Tempest however is to fight every other unit.

I am willing for a compromise of a range increase to only 120. That way Cybran and Sera still have more, but Omen doesn't get completly fucked anymore.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PhilipJFry » 29 Nov 2017, 23:01

i honestly don't see the issue with keeping lower range compared to other bships on the omen - sure we could buff it a little but if the omen stays a "weaker" battleship that you use until you can't stack dmg hard enough compared to other factions and you switch to making more tempests that would be good enough
getting too close to other factions bships might make aeon op in lategame navy battles tho
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yakmann » 29 Nov 2017, 23:14

I'm wondering about one thing: According to the Database, the Summit is the most expensive BS at 10.5k mass, while the Aeon and Sera BS cost 9k each, while the Cybran Galaxy costs the least at 8k. Why? Wouldn't it make more sense - considering the Cybran and Sera BS are mostly equivalent in battle strength (DPS & Range)- to switch the cost of the Galaxy and Omen, so the Omen is at 8k? (Or 8k for both, so the Sera would cost 1k extra for the nuke launcher).
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PhilipJFry » 29 Nov 2017, 23:19

lack of shields
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yolo- » 29 Nov 2017, 23:26

Yakmann wrote:I'm wondering about one thing: According to the Database, the Summit is the most expensive BS at 10.5k mass, while the Aeon and Sera BS cost 9k each, while the Cybran Galaxy costs the least at 8k. Why? Wouldn't it make more sense - considering the Cybran and Sera BS are mostly equivalent in battle strength (DPS & Range)- to switch the cost of the Galaxy and Omen, so the Omen is at 8k? (Or 8k for both, so the Sera would cost 1k extra for the nuke launcher).

Hmm this could be an option, to actually save some mass when making omen and put it maybe into a Tempest, or just simply make more omen. If you would put the mass into a Tempest, you would use your Omens as effective meatshields. But Aeon would still get absolutly raped by UEF and i prefer an option that gives Aeon a fair chance against every faction.
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