Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby IceDreamer » 07 Nov 2017, 01:59

Farmsletje wrote:What i'm scared about is that t3 units will be made too identical to eachother.

Disregarding the balance, almost all t3 units had a specific playstyle. Loya's early t3 raid unit but can be decent when mixed with bricks for a headsup fight. harbs fast speed and good vs t1/t2 and a good harassment unit, can win in small numbers vs stronger t3 units when microed. Percy bad vs t1 but good vs t2/t3 (especially in larger numbers). Very slow but very strong in headsup matches. Othuum wasn't very well balanced, but the idea was that it very strong once it got close (and you could use t3 shields to get that extra hp to get close theoretically), etc etc etc.

If i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong):

Harb speed got nerfed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Harb firerate got nerfed so it looks more like percy firerate.
Othuum range got buffed so it has similar range as harbs.

I know that balancing is hard, but changing the playstyle of units drastically imo isn't the way to do it.

Fyi, some of the buffs/nerfs i can live with, but especially the harb nerf really triggers me. It feels like a complete different unit.



I'm on it mate ;) Just ask Petric, I'm constantly on at him for making things too similar and prodding him to try new stuff :p
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby Petricpwnz » 07 Nov 2017, 03:32

Farmsletje wrote:
Mephi wrote:Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Lol no

Sera t3: Buff t3 shield to make othuums more durable > doesn't make it like other units
Percy: slower RoF or slower walking speed > not like other units.

I was just saying some examples. I don't think all changes are bad, like i said in my post.

Nah, in teamgames harb rape doesn't exist :3


Balance doesn't work like that. You can't buff a totally different unit and hope it indirectly buffs othuum and solves all issues and doesn't create new ones, maybe in some other game but the way FA is designed any significant faction diversity is often detrimental. Best example would be aurora, so unique so different! But it provides insta-win on maps like theta and significant disadvantage on raid maps. And don't even argue about bombers/gun and stuff here, there is a lot more going on here than simple build Y to counter X. Again, I'm gonna talk about it when I make a breakdown vid on t3 once it's in beta. Also harb speed is buffed again and current values are speed from 3 - 2.8 turn rate 120 - 130 so thats like 6-7% of speed nerf and 8-9% turn rate buff so no harb isn't slow or raped or anything. I'm basing the changes on gameplay effects it gives first and on what would be cool to have second.
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby Farmsletje » 07 Nov 2017, 03:53

Petricpwnz wrote:
Farmsletje wrote:
Mephi wrote:Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Lol no

Sera t3: Buff t3 shield to make othuums more durable > doesn't make it like other units
Percy: slower RoF or slower walking speed > not like other units.

I was just saying some examples. I don't think all changes are bad, like i said in my post.

Nah, in teamgames harb rape doesn't exist :3


Balance doesn't work like that. You can't buff a totally different unit and hope it indirectly buffs othuum and solves all issues and doesn't create new ones, maybe in some other game but the way FA is designed any significant faction diversity is often detrimental. Best example would be aurora, so unique so different! But it provides insta-win on maps like theta and significant disadvantage on raid maps. And don't even argue about bombers/gun and stuff here, there is a lot more going on here than simple build Y to counter X. Again, I'm gonna talk about it when I make a breakdown vid on t3 once it's in beta. Also harb speed is buffed again and current values are speed from 3 - 2.8 turn rate 120 - 130 so thats like 6-7% of speed nerf and 8-9% turn rate buff so no harb isn't slow or raped or anything. I'm basing the changes on gameplay effects it gives first and on what would be cool to have second.

It's an example. Not a thoroughly thought out plan. The entire thing was just my opinion that i just wanted to share.

Also, i only heard about the decrease of the harb speed nerf later from mephi
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby lapantouflemagic » 01 Dec 2017, 19:35

Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.

wha...you...you mean bricks used to be even slower... ? :shock:

however, if i had to give an idea...well, othuums are tanks right ? and tanks are supposed to be good at building up speed over time, no ? well i mean, as most wheeled/tracked vehicles, and to the contratry of bots, that are limited to their little legs...

so my idea would be possibly to give those tanks a higher top speed, but a much slower acceleration and shitty maneuverability. this way they would be fairly good at charging in a base of killing a kiting fatboy, although they may have trouble turning around and getting back home without being wrecked by whatever's lurking in the fog of war.

regarding the rest...well honestly i don't know, i play mostly cybran and really feels that bricks suck ass. sure thery're tough and all, but deep down, to me it's basically three loyalists taped together for a result that is ungodly slow. if you really want to change some stuff, i think it would be better to go an entirely different way from what we're used to, give them a slower firing rate and higher damage, or stealth/cloak when not moving to make it an ambush unit (because who would ever want to raid a base with that ? if your plan is to kill your ennemy's grandchildren, fine, but otherwise...) or give them decent torperdoes so that you can do amphibious sneak attacks without having your entire army raped by three marauding T1 subs...

anyway, it's late, more ideas tomorrow !
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby Feather » 11 Dec 2017, 18:44

Blackheart wrote:Easy answer: BHedit.


remove ras change and maybe
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby lapantouflemagic » 12 Dec 2017, 19:17

what is this bhedit i read about here and there ? yet another balance mod ?
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Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

Postby zeroAPM » 13 Dec 2017, 11:19

100 balance mods in the forum
100 balance mods in the forum
Find a cheese strat, make an adjustment
101 balance mods in the forum
101 balance mods in the forum.....
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