Can we get cheaper tech 2?

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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Steel_Panther » 19 Nov 2017, 20:55

I just am wondering what are the pros and cons to simply increasing the cost and/or buildtime for a t3 hq? It seems like a very simple way to force people into building some t2 before they can make it to t3, without having to worry about the balance effect from any other unit changes. Or are there some problems with the balance that is trying to be solved as well? (E.g. it wouldn't hurt to make titans viable at the same time). I don't know if people seriously thought there were major problems with t3 unit stats, it seemed just that t2 was a waste based on the cost of getting t3.
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Morax » 19 Nov 2017, 21:00

From what I gather - and this could be a misunderstanding - is that people really don't want to increase the time it takes to get t3.

Kind of sad because the utility of t2 like "stealthlites" where you mix hoplites and stealth to get a really interesting dynamic. Mongoose would probably be useful, too, if t2 phase was viable. Those mixed with shields, constantly being moved to avoid higher-damage but low range units would be nice.

No love for t2 phase from the people in charge. I still to this day think zock simply disliked t2 phase access early in and took it away from us. There was very little reason behind this and only a preference. No fact exists.
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Farmsletje » 19 Nov 2017, 21:41

"No love for t2 phase from the people in charge."

Aren't they about to nerf t3?
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Mephi » 19 Nov 2017, 23:09

Morax pls stop randomly accusing people. The only thing you achieve with that is deacreasing your own credibility.
The reasons for past and future changes even start with the introduction of engi mod and no, rolling that back is no option.

Overall you might think balancing is an easy job, but it is definitly not.
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Morax » 19 Nov 2017, 23:56

Okay, Mephi. Have fun. Apparently there is some definitive reason you think I have a belief anything in this game is easy.

Also sorry I try to include people in my tourneys and don't cater to your 1400+.

Sorry I don't like the balance.

Sorry I play.

Have fun.
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Mephi » 20 Nov 2017, 00:39

I dont know why you are taking that so personally, but i didnt mean to attack you in any way. Its just a common mistake people do. There are rarely easy solutions to balance problems.

At least quote my opinion correct: i suggested a 8-10 player tourney, with the highest rated signed up players getting in, not some average joe stuff :mrgreen:

Have fun playing ;)


btw kinda offtopic
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Morax » 20 Nov 2017, 00:55

Because you won't budge. Anything and everything I like you don't.
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby moonbearonmeth » 20 Nov 2017, 01:54

I bet you both like FAF.
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sook thread

Postby biass » 20 Nov 2017, 05:07

Patch-notes or something soon? :D

Personally i don't think making T3 HQ more expensive or longer to build will help the current situation, T2 already feels to me like more of an all in play and if you don't do the damage before the enemy hits T3 you're mostly out of the game (unless opponent goes afk and lets you also catch back up)

This is mostly just theory crafting, but i do think making the units a bit less powerful is a good direction to try out. Just make sure players can discuss the patch before it goes live :mrgreen:

Morax wrote:It's opinion; were you guys not getting mad at me for not liking Spockondodge opinion in another thread? Funny how there is a double standard here if you don't like said person's.


People disliked you trying to shoot down Spock's ability to have an opinion not because the opinion itself was poorly constructed but because of exterior credentials (or lack thereof)
You are also being disliked here because despite not being attacked at your person you are yet to put in the effort to properly construct an opinion to work off of.

Hope this clears things up. :idea:
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Re: Can we get cheaper tech 2?

Postby Morax » 21 Nov 2017, 01:22

Alright so why can t2 stage be delayed by an increased price but not t3?

From the books of FaF it is known that t2 is more efficient than t1, t3 far more efficient than t1 and more than t2; however, the gap between t3 and t2 is more than t2 to t1. For this reason, t3 has seemed overpowered. Zock decided to delay the ability to get t2 by increasing the price, yet he never finished off t3 with this theory. To keep t2 delayed and respond to t3 being overpowered by "nerfing" the units themselves seems utterly insane to me.

Why is it that t2 gets a delay but t3 gets a nerf? If the cost of the t2 hq was reverted back to its old price before Zock patches, what would result other than t1 being less viable for the length of time it is now? I am failing to see how this could be such a detrimental idea. It's like someone telling me the bible is true and right for everything it says because it's been that way for 100s of years. Just because something has been "around for a long time" does not mean it cannot be rejected.

It's simply a choice by the balance team preference. My opinion is that t3 should be delayed and keyser and Mephi like nerfing it. There is really nothing wrong with either choice other than what is liked.
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