Balance suggestions

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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Steel_Panther » 24 Jul 2017, 16:32

CrazedChariot wrote: I know one of the next patches is looking at adjusting ACU OC, which might have large impact on this.


This seems like the biggest reason people avoid t2 units, except uef with less mass-dense pillars and mobile shields to eat an OC. Any idea what adjustments seem helpful?
Decrease frequency of overcharges? The splash damage to get multiple kills? (maybe maximum 2 units killed per oc?)
Last edited by Steel_Panther on 24 Jul 2017, 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby TheKoopa » 24 Jul 2017, 16:37

Myxir wrote:
TheKoopa wrote:Except that aeon gun com can shoot when uef can't, forcing the uef player to get closer where the opsidians is right at home. Generally these battles are about who runs out of units faster and honestly it's hard to decide who would win, but I'd give strong possibility to the aeon combo

that confuses me. uef gun should outrange obsidians by roughly 50% of obsidian range. if the uef acu runs after the aeon, either the obsidians have to run away aswell (no need to even have them) or they intercept the uef acu and get OCd (in which case they provide free vet opportunity to the uef player, since he can't attack the aeon acu anyway).
if both players can freely choose whether to attack units (e.g. obsidians or pillars) or the acu, i'd rather feed on obsidians, since each OC kills more mass compared to pillars.
how are obsidians superior in any scenario that involves acus with gun upgrade or OC?


Opsidian range doesn't matter when you have aeon gun com. You can ofc just play defensively and kite 100% of the time, but you still need the units because pillars and t1 is still quite faster than an acu and if you get surrounded you're dead.

Farmsletje wrote:So the uef guncom should get a little bit closer while getting tickled by aeon guncom <3

But really, if this strategy is really as good as you say it is, why arent people using it? And don't tell me it's because harb rush is good because harb rush isn't actually that good in teamgames (take wonder for example).


They both have same dps if you get rate of fire as well? As for people not using it, idk, t2 is generally overlooked in teamgames I'm favor of t1 spam with a gun com or just eco
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Farmsletje » 24 Jul 2017, 16:54

At that stage UEF will have nano, combined with vet and the aeon guncom dps isn't that much, especially because it tends to miss quite some shots as well.

Why is the aeon acu range the only one that matters? Why doesn't obsidian range matter? If a UEF acu + t1/t2 army charges at you you have to defend your acu with other units (obsidians). When the aeon army reacts the uef army falls back while the UEF acu fires a couple of OC's at the obsidians. The UEF OC's are almost twice as effective as the aeon ones because of the high mass density of obsidians.
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Morax » 24 Jul 2017, 20:41

Farm, before t1 maa got buffed it was absolute suicide to rush an aeon position. The mercy unit is the perfect "don't use your comm too aggressive because I'm Aeon" answer to that situation.

For Cybran verse UEF, you are kind of screwed as Cybran defense and ACU suck; which is kind of balanced by loyalist rush yet not quite... I'm never sure what to do as Cybran verse this situation other than stop factories and spam way more t1/t2 pd than one should.

As sera, you pretty much are fine as their t2 pd, ilshavoh, and their own comm with nano bests the UEF one.


Also really nice post and observations. It would be nice if our balance team took you in since you play all the time and are usually available to chat in Aeolus. I think this is model behavior considering you also cast and have a public following.

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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby TheKoopa » 24 Jul 2017, 21:45

Farmsletje wrote:At that stage UEF will have nano, combined with vet and the aeon guncom dps isn't that much, especially because it tends to miss quite some shots as well.

Why is the aeon acu range the only one that matters? Why doesn't obsidian range matter? If a UEF acu + t1/t2 army charges at you you have to defend your acu with other units (obsidians). When the aeon army reacts the uef army falls back while the UEF acu fires a couple of OC's at the obsidians. The UEF OC's are almost twice as effective as the aeon ones because of the high mass density of obsidians.


Well you know it's hard to explain without a replay tbh
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby FtXCommando » 24 Jul 2017, 22:59

Morax wrote:Farm, before t1 maa got buffed it was absolute suicide to rush an aeon position. The mercy unit is the perfect "don't use your comm too aggressive because I'm Aeon" answer to that situation.

For Cybran verse UEF, you are kind of screwed as Cybran defense and ACU suck; which is kind of balanced by loyalist rush yet not quite... I'm never sure what to do as Cybran verse this situation other than stop factories and spam way more t1/t2 pd than one should.


How did the mercy have any more of an effect on the game before the maa change? 1 MAA shot still kills the mercy and people still mixed in MAA in their unit mix if they planned on pushing beyond static coverage.

There are really only a few maps where Cybran has a significant disadvantage against UEF currently. Those maps are one-dimensional team spam maps such as a 4v4 Badlands game or a 3v3 Twin Rivers game. Those games going Cybran and having to deal with a UEF/Phim rambo acu will put the odds significantly against you. Also, pulling back on those maps means that you more than likely have a teammate that will be getting 2v1'd and thus will die putting your team in a losing situation. So you either meet the ACUs and lose or you pull back and lose. Most other maps like wonder, corona, tabula, etc, give you an option to punish greedy pushes.
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Erich von Manstein » 25 Jul 2017, 01:43

Mass fab changes fine, Nothas... sure but I'd rather buff seraphim gunship, maybe make it the best in t2?

Obisidans should be dropped in places where there is no ACU, like the rear. 1-2 obsidians in the rear and glhf killing them.

Don't make T1 torpedo launchers too strong since there is no equivalent of arty in the water to kill them.
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Yolo- » 25 Jul 2017, 20:45

Farmsletje wrote:Static defense needs a big pro because it has a big con: It can't move. You give up mass to defend a portion of the map, but if mobile units could kill it at an equal mass value there would be no point in building it at all.

Lich King is right, there is no equivalent of arty for t1 navy units to kill them. They already rape subs and that is their main purpose. They have a big range advantage and force frigs to come closer and kill the def or to retreat. You are not supposed to use them as your main defensive units, you are supposed to make mobile units. T1 torp launchers are support units, which you can make fast with engis if you need more dps to defend your base. T1 torp launcher buildtime is 450 compared to frig buildtime of 1250-1450.

If you want to turtle against frigs, you can just make t2 pd to defend your t1 torp launchers, which, in turn with their range of 50, will force the frigs to not attack your factories.
Buffing t1 torp launchers will only result in early navy turtleshit, which makes t1 aggression meaningless.

Btw, i think sera t2 torp launcher needs hp buff with only 4800hp compared to the others. Cybran has 1000hp more and more dps.
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Exotic_Retard » 01 Aug 2017, 16:02

oh wow, i take a break from faf and this happens? well 1 week long topic isnt a super necro right? right?

well what do you know, dont let your dreams be dreams i guess, maybe these will get addressed at some point.

meanwhile:
Spoiler: show
t3 mass fabs - fixed in eq - enjoy your mad adjacency bonus
t1 torp launchers - fixed in eq, along with t1 subs, theyre like t1 pd of the sea
cyb acu health - well in a way its not really an issue - vet is fixed in eq - and cyb has regen on stealth upgrade now so you can make use of that instead
obsidian - fixed in eq - its actually not that bad, its got a different fire rate in eq, and now targets acus first which helps a lot if youre trying to kill one
aeon navy - fixed since aeon frigates are buffed, also aeon cruiser is better vs hover as well
pillar - no need since aeon can use obsidians already and t3 land is fixed too
zhtuee - will take a look at this when i get back (3 weeks time) but ofc initial response is that its fixed since it takes a little longer to build and has a larger e cost.
athanah - its fixed by making it a little more convenient to use, but your suggestion is somewhat interesting. also in eq obsidians are fixed too. will take a look at this one as well, but in eq t3 land is fairly well balanced and you can use snipers too so thats cool.
notha - fixed since all pgens have a delightful 2000hp now, and all FBs take exactly 2 passes and none of them depend on things like direction or position of the stars.

also i guess everyone will start spitting for the balance terrorists to be removed from here, but eh what can i do, its my job to say its better over here xD
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Re: Balance suggestions

Postby Erich von Manstein » 02 Aug 2017, 06:00

No it's not.

As for OC - leave it where it is. If you lost your precious t2/t3 spam to OC - you are either playing the wrong faction (kappa) or you are playing it wrong. Don't want your units OC'ed? Sure, send them to raid mexes or drop them in the rear - problem solved. Units were, are and will always be OC'ed on the front with ACUs. That's why there are shields and ACUs to tank OCs.

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