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Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 17 Feb 2017, 22:30
by SpoCk0nd0pe
Ars Nova wrote:Personally, I think putting buildings at greater risk of destruction will lead to players being more conservative.[...]

(shortened the quote a lot to save space, if you want more explanation, read the detailed post)

From my experience, that is not true. Battle for Middle-Earth 2 is an example I'm very familiar with. Due to battalion clumping, you could easily kill buildings in 2 strikes with most infantry units. The game was very tank rushy, both parties sent units past each other prioritising buildings over units. C&C Generals was close to that in some MUs.
FAF is very far from that. To me, the game seems rather turtleish. More raiding opportunity is certainly something the game would benefit from imho.
Yes, that can heighten skill floor and ceiling a bit but there are some easy solutions to compensate (convenience features like area commands and engies not breaking tree groups).

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 18 Feb 2017, 15:29
by Evildrew
Ok I have read all comments

@Lich King, Janus bomber is fixed in Pre_August_2016_Balance patch, there is no reason why it is not implemented into the normal game instead of the stupid version which drops bombs from the tip of its wings and can drop 2 separate loads if micro'ed...

Some points to consider:

So the main point here is that HP changes for eco buildings and factories should not be based solely on faction as they dont generate more resources or have any other abilities, dont cost any different from each other but they have different HP. This is absurd. However I do think that the HP nerf on eco buildings and factories is great as it puts emphasis on more attacking than defending play styles which make games interesting and more dynamic than they were before.

*I am of the opinion that mexes and pgens should die to on average 2 bombers of equal tech level instead of the 2-4 it used to be. HP however should be near identical for all factions though, f.ex.:
500 HP for t1 mex and pgen (aoen 3 t1 bombers due to emp special effect)
2K HP for t2 mex and pgen
6K HP for t3 mex and pgen (3 t3 cybran bombers due to stealth special ability)

*Same point goes for Factory HQs, the reductions are great, it is now possible to kill those turds with bombers, not just tml, that is a great improvement. I actually lost a sera T2 navy HQ to torpedo bombers in a game last night, that was like a first, but great to see :)

*TML missile damage should be reduced to 5K damage from 6K as this would be in line with the ACU HP nerfs last year and the eco buildings and factory HP nerfs recently. The idea here being that we narrow the damage differential between bombers and TML to make both a viable option of taking out strategic buildings (like mexes, Pgen, HQs).
(Cybran T2 HQ could in this case have 5500 HP and still survive 1 TML hit marginally)

*I also think that T2 Fighter bombers need a mass cost reduction and all T2 units need a slight build time reduction to be relevant enough that skipping to T3 for T3 units is less of a no-brainer.

So when thinking about balancing, dont argue about top level 1v1 players tend to win more often with cybran so cybran must be too strong. Those players have particular play styles, preferences, strengths and weaknesses which is based on their experience of playing the game. Factions have strengths and weaknesses depending on the maps themselves, so faction balance can never be perfect for every map and when we play 1 map all the time or substantially more than others we often overlook this. Besides, faction choice does not decide games as much as more efficient ecoing and superior strategic decision making, these things cannot be measure by the parameters that we can change in lua files.

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 19:35
by Lieutenant Lich
Evildrew wrote:*TML missile damage should be reduced to 5K damage from 6K as this would be in line with the ACU HP nerfs last year and the eco buildings and factory HP nerfs recently.

No. That will upset something else - right now, 2 TMLs are required to kill an ACU. should the damage be 5k - all ACUs except cybran will require 3 tacs instead of 2, further nerfing the cybran.


On F/B - good thought, I'm all up for that.
Spoiler: show
soon in v4 of my mod

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 13 Mar 2017, 22:17
by Gorton
You currently can't kill a uef acu with 2 tacts unless you had some script to make sure they launched and hit at the exact time (or you get really lucky with location) - a uef acu will still have 1 hp due to regen.
The same would happen with a 10k hp cybran acu if missile damage was 5k, so changing this would make all the acus a 3-shot w/o upgrades.

Neutral on the subject of changing the damage though.

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 13 Mar 2017, 23:25
by Exotic_Retard
clearly noob norton doesnt know how to snipe properly :D
tmling uef com is eaaaasy and same story with any 6000X hp thing.

maybe you should learn a thing or two from e clan )))

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 20:00
by Gorton
You wanna prove that in some test with many feasible circumstances?
I call bullshit, no misleading the people please

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 20:35
by Ithilis_Quo
Gorton wrote:You wanna prove that in some test with many feasible circumstances?
I call bullshit, no misleading the people please

http://recordit.co/sp2jn6mCwA
http://recordit.co/7wFjprPTN3

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 21:25
by Gorton
And how many times did that take?
Spoiler: show
how long did that take..PNG
how long did that take..PNG (16.36 KiB) Viewed 1774 times
I did that ~50 times and got not a single result with any faction. Angle seems irrelevant, just luck.

I'd go as far to say it only happens with aeon at all.

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 21:40
by Exotic_Retard
Gorton wrote:And how many times did that take?

are you even serious? 1 try.
#5934755

oh and it was uef as well

Re: 3674 hp changes feedback thread

PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 21:43
by Gorton
Gorton wrote:You currently can't kill a uef acu with 2 tacts unless you had some script to make sure they launched and hit at the exact time (or you get really lucky with location) - a uef acu will still have 1 hp due to regen.


Gorton wrote:You wanna prove that in some test with many feasible circumstances?
I call bullshit, no misleading the people please



Also i'd like to apologise to ithilis for wrongly thinking his replay was long - I guess it's bugged in the vault, since it says 1 hour when it's like 4 minutes long.