Decent noob that can't spam

Decent noob that can't spam

Postby la0michael » 11 Jun 2017, 10:47

It may just be me, but I can't seem to get spamming down pat, I watch plenty of cast and players from gyle, to zock,. lu xun zlo etc you name it im subscribed But, I can't get a hang of spamming T1

Those guys i mentioned and the top replays i watch even of 1100+ players can spam beautifully,.. and somehow keep their mass from flatlining,.

I Guess id like to know the general amount of mexes needed and tips on how to use your spam effectively?
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby biass » 11 Jun 2017, 11:06

Something is wrong with the replay vault and i cannot load your replays, so i'll talk in general:

everyone makes t1 units in a 1v1 game, to be "spamming" them is to be trying to win advantages in map control, destroying bases etc in that phase
you can go for "all out" spam, and neglect to eco or let opponents gain advantages in other area in the hopes that you'll win in that phase also

This is basic rts theory, if you want to win in t1, you need to make more "production" (facs, engineers) then your opponent
and you also need enough eco to support it,

Don't ever think about "how many mexes" because you'll be grabbing as many mexes as you can anyways, if you are low on mass, find reclaim, or stop trying to spend as much mass as you are
make sure to make enough power to support it, but dont make massive amounts that you dont need

the big thing here is reclaim, make sure to not dump free mass to an enemy, who can then use that to make eco or to make more tanks back at you, scoop up as mush reclaim as possible, no matter what you're doing

The other note is unit trading, if enemy attacks you with double the numbers but you win that fight from some magical way (micro, whatever) then you're trading better, it made you units in that fight twice as efficient, and if you got the reclaim too, you'll gain huge advantages

hopefully you can post a replay or something and we can see if it was something else that made your "spam" bad, rather then the spam itself
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby RocketRooster » 12 Jun 2017, 01:21

As a noob who studied at the feet of arguably one of the best spammers in the game, I can offer some nuggets of wisdom.

1) Build order. It's crucial.
2) Early reclaim. It's crucial. The speed at which you can get your base and first units up and running is massively enhanced.
3) Don't overbuild power. It sucks up mass that should be used to give your early spam engagements the benefit of superior numbers. Keep a very close eye on it at the T1 proceeding into T2 stage.
4) Don't engage piecemeal. You want substantial numbers to make sure that your mass investment pays for itself and punishes your opponent accordingly.
5) Radar and scouts are crucial. Without those, you play a reactive game even if you have the benefit of numbers. Also, your units can shoot further than they can see, so capitalize on that.
6) You must limit your opponent's easly expansion. So pairs of labs/scouts or a combat scout should be built very soon to go hunting.

Be warned that spam is a very effective strategy that becomes obsolete with a stunning rapidity and finality if you don't have a backup plan in case you are checked.
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby RocketRooster » 12 Jun 2017, 01:34

Also: don't upgrade mexes if you don't have the means, both to upgrade and to protect yourself. The mass and energy that gets sucked up should first and foremost be used to expand your number of mexes and limit your opponent doing the same. Normally, you should only start upgrading mexes once the lines of control have stabilized. This is however a fine line of judgement and I'm told it comes with experience.

Also - it's possible to overmicro your units. By microing too much, you limit their combat effectiveness due to turret rotation speed limits. Again, something that comes with practice.
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby la0michael » 12 Jun 2017, 04:27

You guys rock,.. its more so of a time invested with practice thing to get the hang of it im starting to see,.. and reclaim is the biggest thing,.. i rely too much on mexes and trying to upgrade my eco fast,.. I used to believe that you needed at least one t2 mex in order to span hard or at least 7 mexes, but im seeing from you all its the production radar and time management that makes one successful at spamming,.. i also often overbuild power
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby biass » 12 Jun 2017, 06:14

keep in mind as much as what rocket is saying is correct it is the basic fundamentals of playing the game and should be considered if you are "spamming" or not

spamming also typically doesn't include teching up t2 mexes, you're probably overproducing, spamming hopefully means you have enough t1 land advantage to take extra map control, and then you use that mex lead to eco/tech up
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby Anihilnine » 12 Jun 2017, 10:25

la0michael wrote:I used to believe that you needed at least one t2 mex in order to span hard or at least 7 m

woaah that's your problem right there. You either spam OR eco, don't do both.

When you spam you want to optimise your build for unit production, so that means making as many t1 factories as possible, building only minimal power, and having no t2 mexes.

When you eco you want to optimise for eco, so that means having as few units as possible (which could mean having zero units depending on the map) and building as many t2 mexes as possible, whilst still having only minimal power :)

Obviously there is a middleground but you said your having trouble spamming. First step would be to stop making mexes.

Then you need to sort out your build order. Reclaim whatever the nearby safe mass is. Build a few extra pgens and a few extra engies so that you can actually spend that reclaim. Eg:
Don't do this normal build:
L 2P 2M 3P L
Instead do this optimised build:
L 3P 2M 3P L L
(add extra pgen early, and extra land fac at the end) You need to assist with two engies to be able to actually spend the extra mass and power.
And you can expand on that. If you had 1000 extra mass you could have 4 more factories. Build one pgen for each factory.
L 3P 2M 3P L L P P P P L L L L
But you will need to have even more engies to spend all of that. I'm not sure how much but say 5 all up.

You can practice on Ambush Pass which has starting mass. You probably want something like 6 factories all up.
L 3P 2M 3P L L P P P L L L
So here on paper I can adjust it just by crossing out a P and an L. I'd still build with 5 engies.
That will give you a lot of units!

Crag dunes is another map to practice build orders on. Lots of t2 wrecks.

The number of engies you want to build with is "as much as possible whilst still reclaiming, still expanding and still having a tank or two to defend with".

If you are spending everything then you can send your engies to reclaim or assist your power. Or keep building with your engies, but walk with your acu.

If you have to panic-upgrade a t2mex to spend all of your stuff, you are doing it wrong. On some maps you can build 10 pgens after your first land factory to spend everything, but that is because you are reclaiming heaps, possibly too much.

Another trick is when your acu is walking somewhere and you are having trouble to spend your mass, panic-build a factory with acu.
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby RocketRooster » 12 Jun 2017, 17:10

On ambush pass you send your first engy to build hydro, immediately assisted by the ACU. Extra pgens come later as you need them.
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby KeyBlue » 12 Jun 2017, 17:13

RocketRooster wrote:On ambush pass you send your first engy to build hydro, immediately assisted by the ACU. Extra pgens come later as you need them.

Ambush pass has no hydro...
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Re: Decent noob that can't spam

Postby RocketRooster » 12 Jun 2017, 17:20

Shit. No wonder I keep losing!

Quite right, I was thinking of theta passage.
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