Build Orders

[biass]

Wait, biass says cybran arty is good to have but not lobo, and hawkei says the opposite.

Aren't they equally shit at T1 stage? Lobo has poor fire rate but is good enough against pds, medusa dies 3 times before it can take a pd, but is better against spam, right?

Also medusa is good at t2.

Well, maybe just because for vs buildings i rather have a fervor then a lobo

[Lieutenant Lich]

I usually go either

5 tanks 1 scout 1 arty
or
5 tanks 1 scout

and they do just fine. You dont really need MAA since inties are several times better; you might want to add them only if you dont go air factory.
Also, for aeon is better to make 3 tanks 1 scout since they REALLY need those scouts.

If your scouts are dying because they arrive earlier than your tanks, then you might want to recheck your micro.

And how would I micro that? Scouts in one group, others in a different one? I use mostly ctrl-L to select all land because I need all I have for fighting in one place, usually.

biass: Pillars, OK

Hawkei: what if for air, 4 inties + scout + bomber?

[angus000]

And how would I micro that? Scouts in one group, others in a different one? I use mostly ctrl-L to select all land because I need all I have for fighting in one place, usually.

Just dont send your units towards the enemy in a straight line, move them around trying to find the most favorable engagement.

[keyser]

usually scout don't rush forward in big army.
They do when you have a tank and a scout raiding, but for such situation you can use deselection ui mod, and make scout assist tank.

And how would I micro that? Scouts in one group, others in a different one? I use mostly ctrl-L to select all land because I need all I have for fighting in one place, usually.

wtf are you playing thermo ?

[Lieutenant Lich]

usually scout don't rush forward in big army.
They do when you have a tank and a scout raiding, but for such situation you can use deselection ui mod, and make scout assist tank.

And how would I micro that? Scouts in one group, others in a different one? I use mostly ctrl-L to select all land because I need all I have for fighting in one place, usually.

wtf are you playing thermo ?

No, I concentrate all forces in one place because... blitzkrieg.

[briang]

Just an FYI, this is a factory build queue. When I said you needed to focus on early build orders I mean first 20 structures and first 10 units out of your factory.

[Lieutenant Lich]

Just an FYI, this is a factory build queue. When I said you needed to focus on early build orders I mean first 20 structures and first 10 units out of your factory.

I know what this is. And I am looking precisely for a factory build queue. My starting BO looks OK, it is universal to all maps of a certain type.

[Hawkei]

Wait, biass says cybran arty is good to have but not lobo, and hawkei says the opposite.

Aren't they equally shit at T1 stage? Lobo has poor fire rate but is good enough against pds, medusa dies 3 times before it can take a pd, but is better against spam, right?

Also medusa is good at t2.

If you are using Medusa in an army. Then you are using it for the stun ability, and not so much for it's damage dealing potential. Stun has a huge potential to effect the outcome of a battle, but, will always require other units to deal damage. Medusa are strictly a supporting unit.

The UEF lobo is heavily front loaded, which means it does a lot of damage in a single volley. Some people hate this, personally I love it. Lobo can OHK most other T1 tanks. So it is great for an opener when punishing un-microed units. The usual trick here is to halt the army, bring the artillery into range, send the first volley, wait for impact, and then engage with tank. The arty will usually account for their own number in tank kills (unless there is overkill) which gives you a more favourable engagement. With two armies in a standoff, it is also possible to feint attacks by moving the arty, sending a salvo, and then pulling back. In this situation you want high damage, and ROF is unimportant. The UEF Lobo performs this task exceptionally well.

Hawkei: what if for air, 4 inties + scout + bomber?

This will give you too much bomber and is not a good idea. If you are using bomber, you don't want them randomly flying around on a search and destroy patrol - and you don't want a lot of them either. Sometimes I do include bombers, but, I do so VERY sparingly. 2 air scouts, 8 interceptor, 1 bomber. I only ever do this on big maps in a 1v1 - when my APM is in high demand. I will probably expect to loose some bomber in little skirmishes. But, if I'm doing this, I'm playing a macro game - and therefore don't mind loosing the odd unit. I always have most of my air force kept in reserve. The air patrols are primarily there as an early detection tool to stop things like sneak drops, proxy TML, and proxy base tactics.

Not only this, but in ground battles, it is amazing how many times players will ignore interceptors flying overhead - simply because they aren't shooting at them. But an interceptor patrol gives me excellent recon. I can achieve much better battles with my T1 tanks because I know where everything is. Knowledge is power... But if I also patrol with T1 bomber, he will be forced to get AA - and this will shut down my intel... So often including bomber is a disadvantage.

Even in the T3 air phase, I will still have an unassisted T1 air factory pumping air scouts and interceptors on this patrol route. They are vulnerable to ASF. If this happens I will loose some interceptor - but I will bait his ASF into an unfavourable engagement with my own ASF. So I keep T1 air on patrol. T3 air in reserve.

[TheKoopa]

If you are using Medusa in an army. Then you are using it for the stun ability, and not so much for it's damage dealing potential.

Nop, once late stage t1 is reached Medusa are incredibly useful because of the wide spread of their shells, something you can't do with fervors and lobos. Medusa stun is useful for t2.

[codepants]

This is not only faction dependent but time, map and opponent dependent.


Time: Early game no point in building arty because the 1 tank you're against can dodge them. Just build straight tanks.
--> after ~4-5 min add 1 arty for every three tanks in case of pd, and there will be enough units that arty will be good against them.
--> after ~10-15 min keep building arty if combat is land-to-land, but if it's a pd creep switch to MML or go around the firebase with drops or something fast.

Map: Bumpy maps --> more arty.
Hydro --> easier to go first or early bomber (for both you and your opponent).
Reclaim --> early spam and/or air more likely.
No reclaim, few mexes --> every unit counts, build only exactly what you need, plan your upgrades carefully.
Lots of narrow passageways --> t2 pd much more effective. Use your ACU to block one path completely and send units up the others (one could write an essay on the different ways to use an ACU -- for build power or force? Which upgrades? When? Standing where? Against which factions?)
Fields --> t1 spam much more effective.
Lots of mountains --> drops, gunships and bombers much more effective.

Opponent: Lots of PD --> you make lots of arty.
Aeon spamming auroras --> rush t2 for range bots or go bomber spam.
Spams air --> go air yourself or include AA.


I don't think your mistake is that you don't know the "one thing" to do, I think it's that there isn't *one* thing. You have to adapt based on your and your opponent's factions, the size and components of the map, speed and duration of the game, the tactics you want to employ, and the tactics you want to counteract.