Other minor changes

[Gerfand]

Don't be absurd Gerfand, the amount you would have to buff Strategic Bomber AA to make it imbalanced is ENORMOUS. We could easily, EASILY double the DPS and have no negative outcomes at all. I'm especially friendly to the idea of perhaps quadrupling the DPS, but massively frontloading it so that an early T3 Bomber cannot kill Interceptors any more easily than it can right now, but can dish out some damage to ASFs.

OK, you are right I am absurde...
is because in TR every weapon deal the same damage on Space, so it made the K-wing op there...

[rockoe10]

So i have come to the conclusion that the Cybran changes have made cybran AA (Particularly the T2 Mobile flak) near useless. Sure it does a pretty good job at gunships but everything else it is just pointless. I had 10 T2 Mobile Flak with radar and they couldn't even damage one T1 Interceptor. I was scouted over and over with zero ability to stop him. AND when i finally was able to get to the T3 stage and build a few SAM's, i couldn't even hit a T3 Scout. Its near impossible now for a Cybran player to effectively use its AA anymore.

I feel changes are still needed. Perhaps increasing the velocity of the Flak is a good start. Comparing it with other factions, it moves at a snails pace.

The only way to even defend effectively currently is using air (which you should anyway BUT), and if you've lost air superiority then its tough to use Flak (Or even SAMS) to come back.

[Mycen]

While we're on the topic of the effectiveness of the new flak, there's a question I've had for a while now: Is it really necessary to have 'faction diversity' for so basic a unit? Not every unit has to vary wildly between factions, and when a units fill the same role in each faction I see little reason that they must be notably different.

To name a few off the top of my head, consider T1 air scouts, T1 transports, T1 interceptors, T1 PD, T1 AA turrets, T2 transports, T3 scouts. That's not exhaustive, and it's just units that are essentially exactly identical across all factions. If we get into units that are pretty much the same, the list is even larger. Whose idea was it to introduce faction diversity to T2 flak, anyway?

[pip]

So i have come to the conclusion that the Cybran changes have made cybran AA (Particularly the T2 Mobile flak) near useless. Sure it does a pretty good job at gunships but everything else it is just pointless. I had 10 T2 Mobile Flak with radar and they couldn't even damage one T1 Interceptor. I was scouted over and over with zero ability to stop him. AND when i finally was able to get to the T3 stage and build a few SAM's, i couldn't even hit a T3 Scout. Its near impossible now for a Cybran player to effectively use its AA anymore.

I feel changes are still needed. Perhaps increasing the velocity of the Flak is a good start. Comparing it with other factions, it moves at a snails pace.

The only way to even defend effectively currently is using air (which you should anyway BUT), and if you've lost air superiority then its tough to use Flak (Or even SAMS) to come back.

No change has been made to any mobile flak.

[rockoe10]

Were there any changes to air that would cause the cybran's slow flak to have a hard time? I.e. air speed, flight altitude, etc.

[pip]

Were there any changes to air that would cause the cybran's slow flak to have a hard time? I.e. air speed, flight altitude, etc.

No. Also, in case you didn't know, Cybran has a t1 mobile aa that tracks targets, so it's good to kill OP scouts if you can't do it with t2 mobile flaks.

[IceDreamer]

I think I speak for Pip as well but the number of times post-patch I have thought this is simply insane...

Read
The
Bloody
Changelog

While we're on the topic of the effectiveness of the new flak, there's a question I've had for a while now: Is it really necessary to have 'faction diversity' for so basic a unit? Not every unit has to vary wildly between factions, and when a units fill the same role in each faction I see little reason that they must be notably different.

Fun? It's working quite nicely, I don't see any problems.

[rockoe10]

I think I speak for Pip as well but the number of times post-patch I have thought this is simply insane...

Read
The
Bloody
Changelog

I did, that is why i was confused. I know in the forums there were discussion on air changes as well as flak. I was unsure if some of those changes sneaked there way in

[Gorton]

Changelog:
http://www.faforever.com/?p=1319

It's pretty clear to me, Rockoe.

[IceDreamer]

OK so I've drawn up a list of things which I would like to take another look at, and also things which other people have come to me saying "That's not right".

Cybran and UEF T3 Engineers - Efficiency drop is still a huge gap. I suggest a Mass cost of 380.

Aurora - This is one of mine. I was all for the changes, but every time I've seen or used Aurora post-patch they have been utterly run over. Sure they are supposed to be the weakest tank when not microed nicely, but... It just feels too far. I suggest testing Speed = 3.0, not quite as heavy a penalty as before. The FiringRandomness change is working nicely IMO.

Blaze - Several people have commented to me that the Blaze seems useless, and I have to say I agree with them. It's just lacklustre. Additional DPS was suggested, so I propose +3 Damage, to 18, for 60 DPS from 50. This DPS is higher than the Seraphim hover tank's (Which is 50 too) but the firing cycle on the Seraphim is frontloaded, and much more useful as a unit, it seems.

Medusa - No specifics here, just several requests that this unit be put under the microscope to see if the current nerf is enough, or if it needs to be even harsher.

Corsair - Aulex and Blackheart have told me of a particular complaint here. Apparently, the new Corsair's reduced range is a better situation, but a side effect is that it's now totally impossible to dodge the missiles. The time in flight is too short now. It seems the best solution may be to experiment with slowing the missiles down so that the Fire -> Impact time is the same as it used to be.

Hunter - Reduce HP by 1 to prevent extreme overkill. I believe there are similar complaints for the Aeon LAB.

Mongoose - It still struggles to hit things properly and be useful in fights. Upping the MuzzleVelocity to 30 should make them better at their job.

Trebuchet - Talking to Aulex, he highlighted that this unit is unbelievably powerful compared to the others. The combination of massive AOE and the fastest RateOfFire mean that it's incredibly efficient for stopping T1/T2 armies, as well as T2 Firebases, much more so then the other Factions' versions. Is it truly imbalanced, or is this just a very powerful example of Faction Diversity at play?

Cybran T1 Frigate - I found this today. I know Cybran T1 Frigates are supposed to be the best, I get that, and it's OK... Not by this much though. If you actually look at the unit stats, they are ABSURDLY more efficient. It's actually a bit dumb just how much better they are. No wonder the other factions don't stand a chance early game in the seas. It is actually cheaper and has better Direct Fire DPS than the Aeon Frigate, despite the latter being dedicated Direct Fire!

UEF sACU Bubble Shields - Really, Damage transfer has killed this unit


Token Weapon Improvements

This is just a personal request. When I look at this game, and see units with weapons which are cool features, but utterly ineffective, I just sort of die inside. I have been through the entire game and found as many of these "Token" weapons as I can, then looked at lower tech sources of this weaponry to build a reasonable comparison, as well as the unit equivalent in other factions. It's a long list, so get ready!

Aeon T2 Transport - AA Damage = 12 (From 6)
Seraphim T2 Transpoert - Direct Fire Damage = 4 (From 2)
UEF Strategic Bomber - AA Damage = 32 (From 16), Mass = 2200 (From 2100)
Cybran Strategic Bomber - AA Damage = 10 (From 5), Mass = 2200 (From 2100)
Broadsword - AA Damage = 32 (From 8)
Wailer - AA Damage = 18 (6)
Czar - Depth Charge Damage = 300 (From 150)
Wagner - Torpedo Damage = 30 (From 6)
Brick - Torpedo Damage multiplied by 6, Anti-Torpedo RateOfFire doubled
Othuum - Torpedo Damage = 80 (10)
Spiderbot - AA and Torpedo weapon DPS doubled
Megalith - AA DPS multiplied by 6. Experiment with BuildPower = 100,000 (To make the unit more unique in the way it acts as a Mobile Factory, this amount of BuildPower will instantly divert your entire economy into this project, therefore allowing the Megalith to quite literally "Shit Bricks". Needs testing to make sure it's not too strong, make sure it won't replace Factories as the main method of production, and must not be allowed to Assist other projects)
Fatboy - AA and Torpedo weapon DPS doubled
UEF Destroyer - AA Damage = 40 (From 10)
Cybran Battleship - AA Damage = 9 (From 6), Torpedo weapon DPS tripled
UEF Battleship - AA Damage = 30 (From 12)
Seraphim Battleship - AA weapon DPS quadrupled
UEF Battlecruiser - Torpedo weapon DPS multiplied by 5


Some of these look like massive changes which will instantly unbalance everything, but honestly I don't think that will be the case. Giving a Battleship, a 9000 Mass unit, the AA firepower of a single T1 tower, or the Megalith the power of a single T2 Mobile Flack... Not much, really, not when you look at those Mass costs.