Balance team beta patch changelog

[Ze_PilOt]

I was talking of making veterancy depending of mass. It's logical, I though about it, but it's too much work.

[pip]

New version (Beta 3626.10):

- aurora : rate of fire adjusted to 0.6 (from 0.66) to make up for increased accuracy due to reduction of muzzle charge delay, DPS = 22.22 (from 26.6).
- Obsidian : rate of fire adjusted to 0.23 (from 0.25) to make up for increased accuracy due to muzzle charge delay reduction to 0.1 (from 0.4) ; shield energy consumption back to 10 (it's not a problem anymore since mobile shield costs much less energy, and it will limit the obsidian spam we've seen so far, encouraging mixed t2 armies).
- Blaze firingtolerance reduced to 0 (from 2) will increase hit rate significantly.
- Aeon shield size = 15 (from 16), energy upkeep set to 75
- UEf shield size = 17 (from 16), cost reverted to 110
- Seraphim t3 shield : mass cost = 540 (from 440) (default is 640). T2 mobile shields cost very little mass (120) compared to t2 units, it's not normal that Sera one cost that much mass. Hence the adjustment.
- t3 mobile artilleries buildtime reverted to 4800.
- ASF veterancy adjustment : 12/24/36/48/60 (from 6/12/18/24/30)
- Continental veterancy adjustment : 12/24/36/48/60 (from 3/6/9/12/15)
- Resto veterancy adjustment: 18/36/54/72/90 (from 12/24/36/48/60)

[Ze_PilOt]

New version (Beta 3626.10):

- aurora : rate of fire adjusted to 0.6 (from 0.66) to make up for the increased DPS due to reduction of muzzle charge delay, DPS = 22.22 (default aurora DPS is 20, without rate of fire adjustment, it's 25)

Again, where did you get the idea than the muzzle delay has any influence on DPS ?

[Zock]

Could confirm this. They take 19 seconds in FAF, but with new changes (lower firerate) 21 seconds in balancemod.

However the aurora seemed to be really dominant with the new handling. They need to be dominant, but its maybe a little bit too much, i'm not sure about this, but i'm not sure that they don't need a small nerf anymore either. Will require more testing.

[Ithilis_Quo]

When we want to fix obsidian sound and make him effective (no so many miss on field) then we can make it by AOE dmg, im not absoluthly sure about number but we can calcul it, how big proximity units can go for 0,4sec charge delay and then take obsis this AOE. Result will be that Obsis would has Orgasmic sound and still hit enemy.

- Obsidian : shield energy consumption back to 10 (it's not a problem anymore since mobile shield costs much less energy, and it will limit the obsidian spam we've seen so far, encouraging mixed t2 armies).

of course its a problem, again and again price, price, price, price,price,price !!! 397,5mass for obsidian ! compare this http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 02,URL0303 cybran cost only 80mass more.

zock can build massive unstopable obsis army, but its extremly expensive what will take you masive obsis army who win battle but you defear war. You will make 50% bigger rhinos army for same price or 100% bigger pillars army. (or same big pillars army what come 100% faster, and thats about effectivity) Its many time effective go on T3 phase like build Obsis, Shield is pure disadvantage, it cost energy = mass, its dont hit veterancy, and it go down when you dont has energy. And you still think thats so good that dont need buf in comparing with another units?

[Ze_PilOt]

Could confirm this. They take 19 seconds in FAF, but with new changes (lower firerate) 21 seconds in balancemod.

However the aurora seemed to be really dominant with the new handling. They need to be dominant, but its maybe a little bit too much, i'm not sure about this, but i'm not sure that they don't need a small nerf anymore either. Will require more testing.

Doesn't justify any DPS nerf. It's not a small nerf either.
Same for obsidian.

[Zock]

And you still think thats so good that dont need buf in comparing with another units?

yes

Mainly because of shields, but also other factors. You must not see obsidian as isolated unit, its part of the whole aeon balance, and other aeon strenghts influence the need of a buff.

The question is not if obsidian is too weak, but if aeon is too weak. And if they are too weak (it doesnt really look like they are, though), you can buff the obsidian, or you can buff the shield again, what will also work toward a blaze that can be usefull in some situations over the obsidian, and prevent the aeon t2 stage to become an obsidian only spam.

That the chickenbot is better then the obsidian is not a problem, sera has no other t2 units, no shield, a much weaker hovertank, and a weaker t3. It would be quite unfair if they get also a weaker t2 on top. Sera needs to have the strongest t2.

About the auroras, i also noticed they always miss their first shot now. I suppose because they don't pre-aim anymore. It's not really a problem, but it's already a very slight nerf (along with the buffs that make them miss less, they still got buffed however)

The DPS nerf was propably done under false assumption, it will likley be reverted.

[pip]

That's weird, you're right. I can revert it, same for Obsidians. The problem is that auroras are much stronger in balance testing (and obsidians too).

What this means is that they used to really miss a lot which means they didn't deal their full DPS, but now that they don't lose most of their DPS in wasted shots, they butcher other t1 units. If you have another idea to balance this than rate of fire nerf, I'm all for it, but Obsidian and auroras without adjustments are too strong. Wether it's Luxy, Zock, Crazed playing with them, all other factions struggle a great deal.

You nerfed Cerberus DPS because it doesn't miss anymore, it's the same problem.

This means my changelog is full of shit though, so I have to edit it for sure, but i want to see games with these adjustments to see if it helps making these units more reasonalbe in power.

[Ze_PilOt]

About the auroras, i also noticed they always miss their first shot now. I suppose because they don't pre-aim anymore.

That should be reverted too as the turn rate is reverted.

[pip]

About the auroras, i also noticed they always miss their first shot now. I suppose because they don't pre-aim anymore.

That should be reverted too as the turn rate is reverted.

Can you be more specific?