Czar air micro & Restos OP

[Casimus]

If anything, they are UP against ASF, but overally OP due to good anti-air + good anti-ground + cheap price + high HP combo.
As a jack of all trades, they end up being the best t3 gunship because you can keep them alive much longer. It's not uncommon to see 30 Restorers. Have you ever seen 30 Broadswords?
I wish Restorers had better AA (same as Continentals) and worse anti-ground DPS (same as a t2 gunship).

Also, the other t3 gunships are probably UP too (at least too slow, considering the fact that they can't defend themselves).

When 200 ASF struggle to kill 40 Restorers, perhaps even lose its not a good thing. Even with decent micro (mine aint bad) I find them very very difficult to kill.

Watch game 1021036, then tell me you think the same at the end.

[Casimus]

ASF can beat restorer mass for mass (3.5 ASF for one restorer) I don't see how you can provide a replay that prove otherwise, we did many tests on this.

But well, if you can provide a replay of 10 restorers beating 35 ASF, why not.

Ill bet my bottom dollar you didn't test this with a good air player? (could be wrong)

1021036
1011875 - I lose air to Restos despite significantly more ASF (its a very long replay sorry about that) I had no option but to also spam Restos to win air back, this should not be the case IMO.

Also smaller groups of Restos are ok was the testing you did with 50 Restos v 150-200 ASF etc....?

[Ze_PilOt]

Also smaller groups of Restos are ok was the testing you did with 50 Restos v 150-200 ASF etc....?

Yes.

Maybe you are trying too hard to micro your ASF. A simple patrol order would be enough with a 3.5:1 ratio.

[Casimus]

Also smaller groups of Restos are ok was the testing you did with 50 Restos v 150-200 ASF etc....?

Yes.

Maybe you are trying too hard to micro your ASF. A simple patrol order would be enough with a 3.5:1 ratio.

humm interesting I haven't tried that I shall next time

[Ato0theJ]

3.5:1 is near impossible if you don't have twice the build power as the other player. The build time needs to be changed for either unit since you can pump restos out almost as fast as ASF but at a higher cost while the person making ASF is mass because it doesn't draw enough.

The damage is fine, the HP is fine, the mass cost is fine, the everything is fine except for the build time. Same with the stupid 'you can build 7 flak for cost of 1 resto argument'. No you can't, it costs more time and build power especially with roll off time.

[Ze_PilOt]

If you can spend 3.5 more mass/second than your enemy, you probably already won the game a long time ago.

[VoiceofReason]

If you can spend 3.5 more mass/second than your enemy, you probably already won the game a long time ago.

Yes, and what they are saying is that; UNLESS they have that ability they'll not likely to get 3.5:1 asf vs resto EVER because of buildtime.

... So mass for mass, yes; 3.5 to 1. But as said in the thread, you can build 1.5 asf to every resto built.
So in order to get this magically balanced number of asf to resto, you need to be able to spend more, faster.

So, as you say - if you have the ability to counter restos with asf, you should really have won the game long ago.

[rootbeer23]

a common mistake made by about everybody is to not have enough t1 engineers, and that
due to not having enough t1 factories.
if you do the math, then you get 1200dps and 5000hp for 1200 mass
or you get 140 dps and 6500hp for 1200 mass.
if you lose the air battle the next time, watch the replay and see how much mass you were floating,
because you built less than 10 factories to spam engineers.

[johnie102]

The reason that ASFs attack the Czar in the center is because they attack a certain bone there, right? If this is changable, is it also possible to do this with the GC? Some units miss the GC, because they attack the head and therefore go over it. An example of this is the cybran T2 fighter-bomber. It launches its projectiles towards the head of the GC and if the GC moves forward they simply miss. This is really frustrating and could be remedied by making them attack the body instead of the head.

I also believe this would effect the Monkeylord beam sometimes missing the GC.

[Hawkei]

The reason that ASFs attack the Czar in the center is because they attack a certain bone there, right? If this is changable, is it also possible to do this with the GC? Some units miss the GC, because they attack the head and therefore go over it. An example of this is the cybran T2 fighter-bomber. It launches its projectiles towards the head of the GC and if the GC moves forward they simply miss. This is really frustrating and could be remedied by making them attack the body instead of the head.

I also believe this would effect the Monkeylord beam sometimes missing the GC.

If you have multiple targeting bones, you cannot predict which bone the aircraft will fire on. If there is no targeting bone in the head, a unit cannot fire on it as it is emerging from the water. But it can still fire back, because, the lazer is in the head.