Obsidians

[pip]

I like it that Obsidians are strong. If they appear to be too stong slowing them down a bit, and / or reverting the ratio between hp and shield (but keeping the 5 energy upkeep) should be enough.
But more 1v1 replays are required to check if and how much they are too strong with the current values.
As I wrote in other threads, I'm more concerned with cheap mobile / high hp shields + obsidians than obsidians alone.

[Zock]

They are only too strong vs t1, vs t2 they are fine. They can get slightly weaker vs t2 as side effect, they will still dominate it, exception is the chickenbot, that would need to get adjusted to a obsidian that is weaker vs t2. And that they are to good vs t1 can be seen in the replay i posted.

In my tests i haven't seen shields beeing too strong, but in real games its a different situation. Shield strenght isn't easy to see just in tests. I had some concerns to the shields, but with the shield stacking panalaty (that im still not a huge fan of), the easier to spam shields are actually not so good. And Zep wanted the shields to be strong, i don't see a problem, as long as the shielded units are a bit weaker instead. But obsidian is too strong for that (yet energy cost increase will be much less troubleing then speed nerf) and the blaze still too weak.

i think there might be a solution to both of these problems, but im really not sure.
it would be making the dmg per shot 500.

As said, the value of shields is hard to see. In straight equal mass fights they lose, but you never have theese ingame. Afaik ishies vs obsis look quite good, ishies can win with kite (the reason why speed decrease on obsidian would be a very bad idea), but lose without (dont get confused by the shield test). Thats why i thought 720 dmg will be good, it won't touch the ishie/obsi balance, and the little nerf vs pillar/rhino won't really make a difference, they still own them hard. 500 HP would make it really OP vs pillar, and also won't really reduce its effectiveness vs t1.

[Ze_PilOt]

The test is biased/wrong: The units don't move.
with moving units (both T1 and obsidian), the obsidians will miss some shots. It's a bigger problem for them than any other units.

I don't thing obsidians are that good against T1 (unless they don't move, but they never do).

[Nombringer]

I don't think obsidians are really very good agianst T1 either, HOWEVER I don't think they are bad agianst it either, and that's the real point.


Sure they are not good agianst but they should be bad agianst it

[Golol]

i think in a straight fight no micro no kiting the ishies still beat obsis.

Afaik ishies vs obsis look quite good, ishies can win with kite (the reason why speed decrease on obsidian would be a very bad idea), but lose without (dont get confused by the shield test)

when i tested the new rhino i came accross this.
and it is logic because the chickens only have i think 4 less dps but 130 more hp and they can focus fire (the obsis cant).
what surprises me that when i tested obsis + shields vs ishies ( 1 shield + 9 obsis vs 10 ishies + a t1 tank) the ishies won i think.

500 HP would make it really OP vs pillar, and also won't really reduce its effectiveness vs t1.

500 hp? is that a typo? otherwise i dont get what you mean.

[Ithilis_Quo]

And why you wana make it bad againt T1? They cost price of 2 pillars, and blaze is waste of mass, at now aeons has problem with T1 spam and has nothing good againt it. For now its a problem what can they do when obsis would not be good but bad againt T1? (at now on spam arent good)

[Nombringer]

And why you wana make it bad againt T1? They cost price of 2 pillars, and blaze is waste of mass, at now aeons has problem with T1 spam and has nothing good againt it.

We (aeon players) have aroura',s AROURA'S COUBTER TECH ONE SPAM.

Aroura's counter tech one spam and are countered by almost everything else.

[Zock]

replay with obsidians and rhinos vs moving t1:

Spoiler: show

they do even better then when not moving

i think in a straight fight no micro no kiting the ishies still beat obsis.

Did this test (that has been done countless times before aswell, no doubt, still so many claim its other way..) for you aswell. Obsis win, unless they get kited.

And why you wana make it bad againt T1? They cost price of 2 pillars, and blaze is waste of mass, at now aeons has problem with T1 spam and has nothing good againt it. For now its a problem what can they do when obsis would not be good but bad againt T1? (at now on spam arent good)

Wow that post..haven't seen so many wrong things in so few words since a while.

[dstojkov]

obsidian win vs chicken in range


but you didn't micro your chicken at all obsidian's shoot can be easly dodged.

[Golol]

[quote]Did this test (that has been done countless times before aswell, no doubt, still so many claim its other way..) for you aswell. Obsis win, unless they get kited. [quote]
ok in a direct 1 on 1 the obsidian survives with 20 or 50 hp. in my few tests i did about this maybe an obsi or ishie came in range too early or sth like this.
only a tiny amount of micro, a simple click will make the ishie win.
overall the ishies are better.
as the player with the obsidians you often just need luck.
5 obsis + shield vs 6 ishies with focus fire ishies win. in that test one bot was a bit earlier in obsi range than the other ones and got overkilled massively. and that will happen in most situations.
in my opinion in a real ingame situation i would always expect a sera t2 army to win over the same amount of mass in a mixed t2 aeon army.