Random Map Generation

[Lionhardt]

Hm, very interesting.



But as we are stuck for now within the limits of our editor...


I wondered whether it was possible to write a little script or exe that takes a scmp file as an argument and reads out the coordinated of all props and decals and then creates copies of those mirror along an axis (the second argument). A command line operated program would be enough...

Would that be actually possible?

Because as it stands we can't do maps with mirror symmetry, only rotational symmetry. If we actually had a tool to make mirrored maps we could open up a whole new set of possible maps.

If the darn props and decals were actually saved like the marker it'd wouldn't be much of a problem. You could just read out the save.lua, scan for props and decals, look at their coordinated, generate new entries with modified coordinates so that they are mirrored by the axis, which you give an argument. But no, it's in the compiled scmp.file...

[nine2]

Yeah I could do that. I could flip the heightmap, strata and markers too. I\ve thought about doing this already. The challenge would be supporting different 'fold points'. If I spend 100 hours doing this would you make it worth it?

[Lionhardt]

Well, I have talked with Mad Mozart about a mirrored map that he had in mind an already started roughing out a heightmap.


I mean, it would even suffice if the mirroring would only work along 3 axis. x, y and the axis bisecting the angle between the former two. Or what do you mean with foldpoints?


I myself would prefer it though it it wouldn't mirror strata and heightmap. You can do that easily with photoshop, and there might be times where you don't want it to be mirrored by the program.

[Omnipotent]

Well, I have talked with Mad Mozart about a mirrored map that he had in mind an already started roughing out a heightmap.
I mean, it would even suffice if the mirroring would only work along 3 axis. x, y and the axis bisecting the angle between the former two. Or what do you mean with foldpoints?
I myself would prefer it though it it wouldn't mirror strata and heightmap. You can do that easily with photoshop, and there might be times where you don't want it to be mirrored by the program.

Have you ever used Supcom symmetry? Another tool. Mirroring a three way map is quite difficult though.

See the thing is it upsets me that we have had no support for like 5 years.

It's true that we have these very basic "map tutorials" that basically explain very little. A lot of what I learned in map making had little to do with the tutorials I read, instead the feedback and experimentation that I did.

I mean, their solution to making "FA maps" was to take an alpha tool which btw is unstable, corrupts maps and is generally unresponsive and unreliable, and move FA files into your vanilla folder which renders the vanilla game pretty much useless. It's not in your best interest to keep constantly moving files worth many GBs of data back and forth.

Even mod makers have better luck figuring out what it's about. The programs they use are third party and are up to date. They know a lot about the files because they can be simply opened using a text editor. We know next to nothing about the .scmap and it's become increasingly difficult seeing as FA uses a more detailed, compressed and sophisticated version of the file now. See I could go and ask any modder about making a unit model and animations and they could probably tell me. If I asked a similar question involving how to change a flipping envcube in FA, who could tell me? The vault does not have the proper support for custom props, decals and strata.

Custom strata and decals involves custom installation. Which is lame, the GUI sucks, and GPG map files pre 2007 still in the vaults cache have mp3 files in them lol. Well at least it was allowed. God forbid someone put a .txt in the folder. Automatically deleted. Mapper profiles and directories don't exist, so you have to resort to putting your copyright claim in the description of your map.

If they were looking for financial support, could we not possibly fund a project? Create a new tool, research what the v60 .scmap is and how we can create an edit them? The only person like I said before that understood anything about it is HazardX. He has his own forums over at:
http://forum.hazardx.com/
As I also said before, he wants nothing to do with it really unless he's in a "nostalgic mood" whatever that's supposed to mean... I would be up for a petition to get him out of hiding.

I feel passionately about mapping, and the fact that I can't even properly texture my map without having decals spaz out on me is really discouraging and upsetting. The fact that all maps look generic and "panning" reveals a common and boring skycube that all maps share. The new .scmaps combine many different skycubes to create new and unique ones. You've seen my post, they use 4-6 different files...

I think it's time we got some support, don't you think?

[Lionhardt]

Well... support from where? If you are talking about better support for map MANAGEMENT (like improvements to the vault) then I agree. The mapping support from the side of FAF is pretty meager. There are quite a few things that really don' make a mapper life any easier. You should be able to make a map no longer accessible for download fro example. I had this twice now. I uploaded a map, then spotted a severe bug and had wanted to take the map off the vault (being no longer displayed, I know maps need to stay in the database for backwards compatibility of replays and so on).

Another thing that would be great if FAF automatically downloaded the newest version of a map to the computers of people who have an older version of the same map. Whats the point in updating a map when people don't download the newest version because they don't know it exists? At least there should be a hint for somebody who wants to host an outdated version of a map that states "There is a newer version of this map, do you want to download it now?"

Also, I got feedback for Regor VI Highlands to fix some minor flaws. I updated the map several times since then but in the map pool is still the old one, because the map pool doesn't sync with the newest version of the map in the vault. Also annoying. I don't want to beg Zep or whatever other person of which I don't even know, who has the rights to change the map pool, every time I slightly alter a map of mine that is in the map pool.


The support for custom decals and props would be very cool as well.

@ Duck: Sorry for kind of derailing your thread a little.



Edit: Just checked SupCom Symmetry. It is completely useless. It does nothing you can't also do with Photoshop or any image editor for that matter. Mirroring Props and Decals is what we can't do! This tool doesn't help with any of those. In fact is doesn't even mirror the things it can manipulate. It rotates them.

[Lionhardt]

You know what, I just realized something. Mirroring decals will never work, unless we have an actual mirrored counterpart for every single decal. For props that doesn't matter as much, but for decals it often does.

[Omnipotent]

You know what, I just realized something. Mirroring decals will never work, unless we have an actual mirrored counterpart for every single decal. For props that doesn't matter as much, but for decals it often does.

It's impossible to mirror decals, as they can only be rotated and not flipped.

Another thing that would be great if FAF automatically downloaded the newest version of a map to the computers of people who have an older version of the same map. Whats the point in updating a map when people don't download the newest version because they don't know it exists? At least there should be a hint for somebody who wants to host an outdated version of a map that states "There is a newer version of this map, do you want to download it now?"

The support for custom decals and props would be very cool as well.

^This, auto update feature would be incredible. This comes hand in hand with a mapper profile though. GPGNet Vault had it though, so this is a bit of a downgrade tbh. Not being able to delete a map is a bother as well. There are thousands of corrupt replays anyway so what would it matter if you couldn't replay a map that is of no real significance to the ladder? If I made a map specifically for the use of FAF competitive ladder, I would understand. I still think we need a new tool. I also think we should start posting in a new thread, perhaps one that will get the attention of FAF programmers. I would happily donate if we had the opportunity to ask for what we wanted to change (in mapping terms). We can all live in hope, eh?

[Aurion]

You know what, I just realized something. Mirroring decals will never work, unless we have an actual mirrored counterpart for every single decal. For props that doesn't matter as much, but for decals it often does.

It's impossible to mirror decals, as they can only be rotated and not flipped.

Another thing that would be great if FAF automatically downloaded the newest version of a map to the computers of people who have an older version of the same map. Whats the point in updating a map when people don't download the newest version because they don't know it exists? At least there should be a hint for somebody who wants to host an outdated version of a map that states "There is a newer version of this map, do you want to download it now?"

The support for custom decals and props would be very cool as well.

^This, auto update feature would be incredible. This comes hand in hand with a mapper profile though. GPGNet Vault had it though, so this is a bit of a downgrade tbh. Not being able to delete a map is a bother as well. There are thousands of corrupt replays anyway so what would it matter if you couldn't replay a map that is of no real significance to the ladder? If I made a map specifically for the use of FAF competitive ladder, I would understand. I still think we need a new tool. I also think we should start posting in a new thread, perhaps one that will get the attention of FAF programmers. I would happily donate if we had the opportunity to ask for what we wanted to change (in mapping terms). We can all live in hope, eh?

I think it would be sad to see lots of replays disappear, but that is not an issue anyway. Maps could be downloadable for a replay and not for a normal game so the replays keep functioning. Deleting would just hide from downloading manually.

[Lionhardt]

I think it would be sad to see lots of replays disappear, but that is not an issue anyway. Maps could be downloadable for a replay and not for a normal game so the replays keep functioning. Deleting would just hide from downloading manually.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.

[nine2]

You know what, I just realized something. Mirroring decals will never work, unless we have an actual mirrored counterpart for every single decal. For props that doesn't matter as much, but for decals it often does.

why isnt rotating decals perfect?