The role of the Mass Fabricator

Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby A_vehicle » 14 Mar 2013, 04:35

Mass extractors can be turned off but you never see that happen. No one can afford to micro their units at that late in the game when you build T3 mass fabs, especially with micro ASF fights and stuff.

When you destroy experimental then use the mass for mass fabs and PGs, it's basically free.


Not really, because investing in T3 fabs are so inefficient that in the long run it is better to use the mass from enemy experimentals to build your own experimentals.

Here are the buff stats, according t the FAF wiki:
Code: Select all
t3 mex = 25% discount to factories ; 20% for Quantum Gateways
t3 mass fabs = 20% to factories ; 15 % for Quantum Gateways


I think these buffs are too arbitrary. Adjacency buffs should be universal, not according to the building type. Sorry, but this broke my willing suspension of disbelief. They should be reverted if they only were changed for factories and differently for gates, because they look fake to me.
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Master_lee wrote:Padfoot141 go home loser ! go play thermo !
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby pip » 14 Mar 2013, 08:53

A_vehicle wrote:Mass extractors can be turned off but you never see that happen. No one can afford to micro their units at that late in the game when you build T3 mass fabs, especially with micro ASF fights and stuff.

When you destroy experimental then use the mass for mass fabs and PGs, it's basically free.


Not really, because investing in T3 fabs are so inefficient that in the long run it is better to use the mass from enemy experimentals to build your own experimentals.

Here are the buff stats, according t the FAF wiki:
Code: Select all
t3 mex = 25% discount to factories ; 20% for Quantum Gateways
t3 mass fabs = 20% to factories ; 15 % for Quantum Gateways


I think these buffs are too arbitrary. Adjacency buffs should be universal, not according to the building type. Sorry, but this broke my willing suspension of disbelief. They should be reverted if they only were changed for factories and differently for gates, because they look fake to me.



That's completely ridiculous. You never saw people turn off their mass fabs? I did, plenty of time. It's not hard.

You don't understand that Quantum Gateways are different buildings from t3 factories? Quantum Gateways are "Size 20" buildings, not "size 16", that's the reason why there is a difference (you can add more fabs, so in the end, you would en up being able to have more than 100% discount too easily). You think they are fake but you should rather think they are different ;-)
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby Wakke » 14 Mar 2013, 10:05

pip wrote:You don't understand that Quantum Gateways are different buildings from t3 factories? Quantum Gateways are "Size 20" buildings, not "size 16", that's the reason why there is a difference (you can add more fabs, so in the end, you would en up being able to have more than 100% discount too easily). You think they are fake but you should rather think they are different ;-)


Off topic, but I've been wondering: in the original FA, adjacency bonus was a set value you get when completely surrounding a buidling, no matter it's size. So you had to put more adjacent buildings to a big building to get the same bonus. Did FAF change this mechanic?
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby pip » 14 Mar 2013, 11:15

Wakke wrote:
pip wrote:You don't understand that Quantum Gateways are different buildings from t3 factories? Quantum Gateways are "Size 20" buildings, not "size 16", that's the reason why there is a difference (you can add more fabs, so in the end, you would en up being able to have more than 100% discount too easily). You think they are fake but you should rather think they are different ;-)


Off topic, but I've been wondering: in the original FA, adjacency bonus was a set value you get when completely surrounding a buidling, no matter it's size. So you had to put more adjacent buildings to a big building to get the same bonus. Did FAF change this mechanic?


Nothing was changed from the way it works in FA, only values (more interesting bonus). You always get a bonus for each building (small buildings = small bonus, big buildings = bigger bonus). You don't have to fully surround a building to have discount : check how it works for pgens adjacency. But the more a building is surrounded by adjacency structures, the bigger the discount, as is expected.
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby Wakke » 14 Mar 2013, 11:24

pip wrote:
Wakke wrote:
pip wrote:You don't understand that Quantum Gateways are different buildings from t3 factories? Quantum Gateways are "Size 20" buildings, not "size 16", that's the reason why there is a difference (you can add more fabs, so in the end, you would en up being able to have more than 100% discount too easily). You think they are fake but you should rather think they are different ;-)


Off topic, but I've been wondering: in the original FA, adjacency bonus was a set value you get when completely surrounding a buidling, no matter it's size. So you had to put more adjacent buildings to a big building to get the same bonus. Did FAF change this mechanic?


Nothing was changed from the way it works in FA, only values (more interesting bonus). You always get a bonus for each building (small buildings = small bonus, big buildings = bigger bonus). You don't have to fully surround a building to have discount : check how it works for pgens adjacency. But the more a building is surrounded by adjacency structures, the bigger the discount, as is expected.


I think you misunderstand me. I'll quote from the wiki:

"As the formula above illustrates, a 1x1 square building next to a 1x1 square power generator will receive a bonus 3 times the magnitude of the bonus that a 3x3 square building would receive from that same power generator (proportionally speaking). So although larger buildings have more adjacent space to be occupied with bonus-giving buildings, they receive less bonus per space than smaller buildings (all other things being equal)."
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby A_vehicle » 16 Mar 2013, 01:31

That's completely ridiculous. You never saw people turn off their mass fabs? I did, plenty of time. It's not hard.

You don't understand that Quantum Gateways are different buildings from t3 factories? Quantum Gateways are "Size 20" buildings, not "size 16", that's the reason why there is a difference (you can add more fabs, so in the end, you would en up being able to have more than 100% discount too easily). You think they are fake but you should rather think they are different


Yeah, I know how adjacency buffs work. The reason why I was so alarmed is because I thought they altered the mechanics in some way so they applied differently to certain units, for instance a land factory receiving a larger buff than a Q-gate when completely surrounded by fabs. However, I checked the adjacencybuffs.lua file and I see that the mechanics are not altered and still work the same way, meaning all buildings get the sam buffs when completely surrounded. Seems legit.

I also see they fixed the power generator weapon buffs, so now T3 Heavy Artillery get ROF buffs from adjacent T3 pgens, which is excellent, but off topic.

Yes, buildings get bonuses for a particular stat depending on the percentage of its perimeter that is covered by a bonus giving building. This makes bigger buildings more expensive to surround with small economic buildings. On the other hand, bigger and higher tier buildings give bigger bonuses, which basically balances it out because it takes fewer of them to surround
a large building.

Also, I still think that constantly switching on and off mass fabs is too micro intensive, and your average player does not have the time to use them in a fast paced late stage game.
Typical Voodoo Edition Map Dialog:
Master_lee wrote:Varaxis ist loser vote all my maps 1 !!! he cant make maps noob go home !!!!!!

Padfoot141 wrote:Terrible map. Spawn with 6 commanders and there are civillians with fatboys.

Master_lee wrote:Padfoot141 go home loser ! go play thermo !
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby Wakke » 16 Mar 2013, 10:21

A_vehicle wrote:
Also, I still think that constantly switching on and off mass fabs is too micro intensive, and your average player does not have the time to use them in a fast paced late stage game.


There is a UI mod that does that automatically.
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby A_vehicle » 17 Mar 2013, 03:54

I can't install it, it crashes my game for some reason. But the solution to that is not to be discussed here.

Perhaps the T2 mass fab should have a mass cost of 10 and an energy drain of -100.
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Padfoot141 wrote:Terrible map. Spawn with 6 commanders and there are civillians with fatboys.

Master_lee wrote:Padfoot141 go home loser ! go play thermo !
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby FunkOff » 17 Mar 2013, 12:28

A_vehicle wrote:Perhaps the T2 mass fab should have a mass cost of 10 and an energy drain of -100.


Absolutely not.
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Re: The role of the Mass Fabricator

Postby Raghar » 17 Mar 2013, 14:35

Wakke wrote:
A_vehicle wrote:
Also, I still think that constantly switching on and off mass fabs is too micro intensive, and your average player does not have the time to use them in a fast paced late stage game.


There is a UI mod that does that automatically.


Or you can CTRL+click on fab and do stuff. Or you can keep all FAB3 selected on 8 key and activate and deactivate as needed.
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